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Old 06-24-2011, 12:38 PM
 
1,022 posts, read 11,313,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
You are still pleading for special treatment and that is why kids should not come to adult forums.

If they are devoid of any religious indoctrination, then they should still be allowed to develop emotionally. Atheism usually comes from deep theological criticism weighed against science and is not something IMO a child that is not fully emotionally developed can claim.

A genius would not be spending time on these forums anyway as they should be doing what he and you claimed he can do, reinventing science.

If you are a parent, teacher, guardian, big brother, you have failed to set boundaries that are age appropriate. We should not apologize for the way he was treated.

Are you going to be holding his hand when he grows up and write to the science professors and plead for special treatment?

I think you should stop wasting our time while we are still in polite mode.
All children who are Atheist do not have to come from this base. The base is Science...if religion was a deep part of life, and experiences then you come from that base and that is what Atheism means to you.

The world is huge with many religions and many who choose not to relate to religion at all, or live in a nation that does not carry weight to religion at all...One does not exclude the meaning, significance and purpose of the other. Both can Co-exist.

Last edited by KnightShadow; 06-24-2011 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,155,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightShadow View Post
All children who are Atheist do not have to come from this base. The base is Science...if religion was a deep part of life, and experiences then you come from that base and that is what Atheism means to you.
This is where you make broad sweeping statements that bear no resemblance to the truth. My entire education was real math and science, and my engineering degrees are in the scientific fields. My entire life has been science based. Religion was a part of my life but that story is very complex. The science prevailed and I regained my sanity.
Quote:
The world is huge with many religions and many who choose not to relate to religion at all, or lives in a nation that does not carry weight to religion at all...One does not exclude the meaning and purposes of the other. Both can Co-exist.
No they really cannot and folk have tried. Science and religion are juxtaposed. As you probably do not have a sound foundation in religious studies, (you seem very young based on your profile and likes) the church was the vehicle of scientific enlightenment for eons. IOW they controlled it and the education of the privileged few was run by the church.

It is only in the 20th and late part of the 19th century where they branched off. There is a whole aspect of increased literacy that led to the scientific revolution.

If you have followed any of my posts, I have cited many dates when specific discoveries were made that directly exposed the religious dogma. Much of this happened in the late 19th and mid 20th centuries. History is also a valuable tool and necessary to see where it all branched off. Pure science and math are not the only tools. Scientific theories that are quite old are established fact now and taught as such, the old farts did have a contribution to make to the scientific community and humanity at large.

We old codgers are concerned that the next generation are unenlightened and poorly educated esp. in the US.

It really is sad that folk know so little of history and the world at large. Back in my day we studied the American Civil War and much of its history when I was at school. We also studied many other nations like Europe, Russia, China. Do you know anything of the British aristocracy? If not you should as it is common to your nations and mines histories.

That said, I learned this all at a technical high school under a British curriculum, we had to learn to use our hands and heads equally well. back then we did not have the internet, we had to go to the library to research and study.

In the fields of Electrical engineering, the old farts responsible for Faraday's law, Ohms law, Kirchoff's law, Newton and many old geezers old science still is applicable today. So when you next switch on your PC, know there are decades of science discovered and applied in those circuits and Ram chips while your daddy was still a twinkle in your grand father's eye.

History has it place laddie and you should be grateful if you cannot garner some modicum of respect for the many wise men and women that preceded your existence.
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:33 PM
 
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I am not speaking or invalidating YOUR reality or its base. I am only explaining other realities that are being shaped as we speak. Both are with meaning and can Co-Exist. One, doesn't invalidate meaning for the other.

(Difficult to manage conference calls, a working team, and here but here gives Me a break from stress. LOL)

Now if you believe it does, then that is acceptable as Your worldview. It doesn't need to be debated because, any thing else IS meaningless in Your world and you have a right to create Your own definition of Meaning. So in Your Worldview that will always be true and it is for You and those who believe as You do.

It has meaning and is of value. Difficulty only comes when there must be consensus of an absolute forever unchanging.

Sorry, trying to do this, mixes up what is said here vs what I'm saying on the cell. So I had to redress it.

Last edited by KnightShadow; 06-24-2011 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,155,413 times
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It is not MY REALITY, it is simply reality. Wanting to redefine the reality of science and merging of religion(s) to coexist leads only to pseudoscience.

My worldview far outweighs yours, you really have only just begun your life. If you think it will be possible to simply do your own thing and reinvent, you are as mistaken as your "genius" cohort. I too had to build upon the foundations of my tutors as they had to do with their tutors. Just the way the world works.

Who taught you to read and write anyway? God?

Sorry buddy, you have been exposed and this is where experience makes the difference.

It really is odd that you admonish me for not teaching yet when I show you that teaching is an integral part and blows your whole premise out of the water, it is simply my worldview and reality?

Sadly this will not work out well for you. Alternate realities only exist in computer games and I suggest that is where your worldview expertise resides.

Back in my day we had Ghost-busters with Alan Murray but our generation knew this was fiction.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:07 PM
 
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Your Worldview and experiences confirm It IS Reality. Well that is the power of a Worldview. Your perceptions attracts all things true to that perception. That is why a scientific event is changed by the observer. Reality works this way. Your Reality IS Reality. It is nothing else.

I never disagree with this point of View. LOL
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:36 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,034,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightShadow View Post
Because he used the word dumb? Thats their lexicon which New World explain. Older Atheist meant supporting a concept that would prevent him from doing what he wants to do. What he heard was...if you want to STAY atheist, you must give up your dreams because we don't believe all things come under your precious science.

From that point of view, he felt everyone was sayiing his god (science) was impotent, and required him to be blind to believe in it, love it, or have any relationship to it.

How do I explain this...the kid was crying at that point but trying his best. Imagine you having to teach these kids. (Put Myself in this position). What a nightmare if I'm always coming from a Christian Paradigm but these kids are Russian born with no exposure to religion at all. They can't relate to it, it doesn't make sense...


Knight - do you recognize that this kid is not a scientist? That he has not gone through the rigorous training, taken the upper level college classes, or done the lab work? Do you understand that the "dream" he was talking about was a mix between Ghost Hunters and a crazy made for TV mad scientist who brings the supernatural to the every day?

Science relies upon concrete, observable, reproducible data. It's a shame the kid shut his ears (eyes?) off and became defensive at those trying to explain and bring him back to reality.

Rather than admitting the nonscientist, pre-teen/early teen is wrong in their understanding of the field, you're proposing that there's some huuuggee generational gap that allows them to see things more open than us "older folks" (even though I'm only 25..).

Personally, I think he could learn a lot from this forum if he comes back, drops the "my generation is more open" attitude, listens, and realizes that his science education has not even begun, yet. That is how people learn, not becoming defensive, crying, and holding onto your position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightShadow View Post
Their Atheism has no relation at all to religion. It is an affirming philosophy, not a anti anything at all. So here comes one of those upstarts and he's totally confused. He doesn't get it...Their orientation has nothing to do with Gods.
Then that's their mistake for not understanding what Atheism means. Next time you see any of "them" toss a dictionary their way and have them read the definition of Atheism. He needs a different word to explain whatever he is attempting to, because Atheism is not it...
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:45 PM
 
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Do you realize you are saying, understanding scientific complexities are age based?

That is simply not true. One brain can maybe master what it took Your brain to do at age 25. Science is not prejudice in that way.

What this kid don't have is experience...life experience which IS age based.


As to what Atheism is, it is up to those who profess it to define it, however I think scientist who grew up in countries without religion, and who identify with the term Atheist, would disagree. For something to be true it must meet all situation, and every possible situations that can ever be. If religion disappeared would that mean Atheism would be at an end? Maybe but what better way to ensue humanity never be enslaved to mythical ideologies than to have available a term called Atheism.

All systems of belief evolve otherwise, the Christians of today would be in every way, the Christians of 1000 years ago. They are not. Man has this habit of loving variety and change with things meaningful to his life.

As long as there's Christians, there will be the Atheism meaningful to You. For others, the Christian faith could die tomorrow but Atheism will live as long as Science is relevant.

Last edited by KnightShadow; 06-24-2011 at 03:02 PM..
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:54 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,034,962 times
Reputation: 1890
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightShadow View Post
Do you realize you are saying to understand complexities are age based?

That is simple not true. One brain can maybe master what it took Your brain to do at age 25. Science is not prejudice in that way.

What this kid don't have is experience...life experience which IS age based.
Are you crazy? Science is an academic field. No matter how bright, people aren't born automatically understanding evolution, physics, medicine, chemistry, biology etc - it takes years of hard work, and virtually giving up everything else in your life to dedicate towards studying once you get to the higher levels.

You seem to be very naive.

Edit -

You don't understand. Atheism is a defined word. If you're attempting to explain a different situation or belief - use a different term. Also, atheism isn't Christianity dependent, as Christianity isn't the only view putting forth a God...

And Atheism and science don't automatically go hand in hand either. I could make a case for God and still keep studying science, in fact many do. I've had so many professors who were religious, yet had careers in (honest) science. I'm not an Atheist due to any part of Science, but rather simply my lack of belief in a God.

Last edited by TheEarthBeneathMe; 06-24-2011 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 06-24-2011, 03:03 PM
 
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If you don't realize there are children, cloistered on college campuses doing academic scientific work AND research, then there is nothing more to add.
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Old 06-24-2011, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,377,832 times
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The basis for having a scientific worldview is the scientific method. It doesn't take much effort to understand that. Of course there is much more to learn, but that is the basic underpinning. It can keep one from believing a lot of nonsense. Experience and education will add the superstructure, but it is important to start out with the proper concept.
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