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Old 01-28-2008, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Ocean Shores, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AT9 View Post
...the underlying priciple behind Atheism is that the world was created without God and that there is no such thing as a spiritual realm
That may be the underlying principle in your definition of Atheism, but there are many Atheists who recognize a Spiritual realm as occupying a position on the energy spectrum at a much higher frequency than what is perceived by our normal physical senses.

The Spiritual realm is part of the natural universe and has nothing to do with god or anything else "supernatural".
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:32 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AT9 View Post
Ghosts are different from God, but they are both in the realm of the supernatural, not the natural.

So you are saying that god is a ghost, thus dead? Or are you saying that ghosts are on an equal footing with god? Either way, not a real vote for religion.
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Oz
2,238 posts, read 8,696,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predos View Post
So you are saying that god is a ghost, thus dead? Or are you saying that ghosts are on an equal footing with god? Either way, not a real vote for religion.
That's quite an amazing extrapolation on his post you've made there. He's not saying either of those things.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:02 AM
 
3,715 posts, read 5,096,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AT9 View Post
So the problem with this is that the underlying priciple behind Atheism is that the world was created without God and that there is no such thing as a spiritual realm.
I agree with FF above--that is what you've decided atheism is about.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:37 AM
 
Location: South Seattle Suburbs
3,348 posts, read 5,811,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seethelight View Post
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Well, if an athiest happened to see, or hear or feel a ghost then they wouldn't have to believe anymore. Belief is not knowing. Knowing is accomplished through your senses with regard to experiencing this world (or the world beyond).
Exactly! I know that I've seen things that most people call ghosts, so I don't have to "believe" in such a thing. However, I also don't assume that what I saw is the soul of a dead person. There could be lots of explanations, from psychological ones to scientific ones. "Ghosts" could be a natural phenomenon that we just don't understand yet. (See my earlier post.)
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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Fat Freddy wrote:
Quote:
That may be the underlying principle in your definition of Atheism, but there are many Atheists who recognize a Spiritual realm as occupying a position on the energy spectrum at a much higher frequency than what is perceived by our normal physical senses.

The Spiritual realm is part of the natural universe and has nothing to do with god or anything else "supernatural".
That is some pretty wild speculation. We know that light and radio waves have frequencies because we can measure the frequency and it's something that's widely understood. What basis do you have to state that a spiritual realm exists that has a frequency on the energy spectrum? If someone had actually measured this so called frequency then we would have definitive proof that a spiritual realm exists but no one ever has. I understand that you're just trying to propose an explanation for something we can't measure or even detect but until someone actually comes up with a plausible explanation for a spiritual realm and evidence that it's really there I don't see how you can describe it as having a higher frequency than what our physical senses can perceive.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Ocean Shores, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
...until someone actually comes up with a plausible explanation for a spiritual realm and evidence that it's really there I don't see how you can describe it as having a higher frequency than what our physical senses can perceive.
Think of the term "Higher Frequency" metaphorically rather than trying to assign it a wave length or placing it on the frequency spectrum.

As far as I know, there is no equipment to measure Chi, or "Body Energy" either, but it's existence can be known empirically by the results of it's manipulation, by, for example, acupuncture or meditation.
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Old 01-29-2008, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren View Post
Well I don't believe in ghosts but then again I have never met one.

I find it far more likely that a loved one that has passed away could (while on his way to another existance) try to contact me.

On the other hand christians believe in some omnipotent unseen puppet master who they have never met, have seen no evidence exists?

Honestly which is MORE likely.

I have considered the posibility that some people believe in reincarnation and it might actually be true, who knows? Again, until I have some evidence, I can't believe in that either.
Now Lindsey,are you saying EVERYTHING you believe to be true,you have 100% absolute proven knowledge that it is true? Careful now!
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:11 PM
AT9
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
691 posts, read 1,006,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predos View Post
So you are saying that god is a ghost, thus dead? Or are you saying that ghosts are on an equal footing with god? Either way, not a real vote for religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaminRed View Post
That's quite an amazing extrapolation on his post you've made there. He's not saying either of those things.
As RoaminRed said, I'm not saying either of those things. All I'm saying about them is that niether is explainable by science (that we know of), so it does not belong in the natural or scientific category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildings_and_bridges View Post
I agree with FF above--that is what you've decided atheism is about.
Yes that's what I believe atheism is about, but that's not my point. In regards to the title of this thread, I have decided that by the meaning of the word "atheist", an atheist can believe in ghosts. Because the meaing is simply a lack of belief in God. However, I think you will find that most leading atheists are complete naturalists, and a belief in something supernatural violates that whole belief. I'm just trying to make the point that if an atheist believes in one thing like ghosts, then that opens the door to the possibility of other supernatural things, like God.

If some one were to debate me about the existance of God, and they thought that God is not real becasue there is no testable evidence for Him, yet they believed in ghosts.... It would be an obvious weakness of self-contradiction in their argument. So to make my point clear, an atheist can believe in a ghost, but an atheist/naturalist cannot. That's all I'm getting at here.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:25 PM
 
140 posts, read 263,706 times
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Default barriers thin and nonexistant

Quote:
Originally Posted by steffan View Post
I was just wondering about what defines an athiest
Physicists say the dynamic of the universe is decided, at any one moment, in the continual exchange of the material and energy component of this reality/ this universe.
are you asking me if I believe in ghosts? Then yes, I believe in ghosts!
cheers Stu
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