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Old 02-27-2011, 09:11 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 5,405,358 times
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Yes. The existence of ghosts isn't dependent upon a belief in a deity.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nimchimpsky View Post
Yes. The existence of ghosts isn't dependent upon a belief in a deity.
Yet now if you believe in the existance of a spiritual ghost. That opens the door to a belief in a spiritual God. For in the past non believers did not believe in anything that was spiritual at all. For their belief ended with only that which was physical, or material. It appears some of those non believers are now having a change of heart.
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Old 02-27-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
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I don't see a conflict.

Of course, I'm just as agnostic about ghosts as I am about God. I don't know if they exist or not. However, there is no benefit to me if they DO exist and I believe in them, so I haven't made a choice of whether to believe in them or not.

There isn't much that I believe or disbelieve.
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:20 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
300 posts, read 676,297 times
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I don't believe in anything 'supernatural', including the 'spiritual realm' or ghosts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Of course for years atheist have told us that only a delusional person would believe in a spiritual world. And that is because they did not believe the Bible. So if atheists are now saying they do believe in ghost. Then they are now telling us the Bible was speaking the truth when it told us that a spiritual world does exist. The Bible also tells us there is a God that exist in this spiritual world.
Couldn't leave the 'grossly over-reaching exagerations"* in the noah's ark threads could you?

So now, atheists all over the world are admitting that the bible is correct because a few of them think that ghosts might exist?

*I believe that is how rifleman phrased it.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Ohio
10,427 posts, read 5,765,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steffan View Post
I was just wondering about what defines an athiest
Of course atheists can believe in ghosts. I do. When I was assigned to TRADOC Headquarters I saw a lot of ghosts and ghostly things. I was working with a CSM one night preparing for a financial audit and in his office a light came on the phone. It was the old black rotary dial phones that had the push-buttons for different lines. That was an internal line that originates from a sole office. You can't call in or out of the building on that line. Since it was about 10:30 pm and we were the only two people in the building, no one should be on that line. He picked up the receiver and we could hear voices talking. They ignored him as he tried to interrupt their conversation. He went ahead to walk down to that office while I called the MPs, and when I got there, he was white as a sheet, shaking, sweating. He's a Korean War POW and did 2 tours in Vietnam. There was no one in the room, but it was cold and had a staticky feel to it. I picked up the receiver and could voices and threw it down.

We had to unlock the doors to let the MPs in. There's a few million in cash and lots of classified documents in the building. We all searched the whole building and didn't find anything, except the vault door open, but the gate to the vault area locked. We went back to the the keys to the vault-area gate because they're kept in a special key control box, and when we returned, the vault door was closed and locked. That door weighed 25 tons. Can't blame air, because the basement and sub-basement didn't have a HVAC system. Even if you could claim air blew a 25 ton vault door shut, you can't explain how the lever was pulled down to lock the vault.

Anyway, I saw a lot of wierd stuff like that. A general officer who later became the Army Chief of Staff, and then later was appointed as Joint Chief of Staff told me once that he was walking with another general officer across the parade field accompanied by their wives, and they all four saw what they thought was Edgar Allen Poe sitting on a wooden bench talking to a woman. As they approached the bench, Poe and the woman disappeared (Poe was a lieutenant in the Engineer Corps and stationed their for some time).

I had no reason to doubt him, and I later spoke separately with the other general officer out of curiosity about it and he related the same story.

The phenomenon could probably be explained if someone were to undertake a serious scientific study. There are many things we don't understand. Ghostly things may be the result of electromagnetic activity, or perhaps time warps or bends or interfaces with other time periods and the cause may be related to electromagnetism or something else entirely, and we know very little about electromagnetism or time (or space or space-time).

If ghosts were proven to exist, it would not be proof of a god-thing, or proof of an after-life. In fact, it would actually discredit both.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 1,503,058 times
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"If ghosts were proven to exist, it would not be proof of a god-thing, or proof of an after-life. In fact, it would actually discredit both...."

Except for the absolute knowledge of good and evil.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:05 PM
 
576 posts, read 773,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AT9 View Post
Ghosts are different from God, but they are both in the realm of the supernatural, not the natural. An atheist believe in natural things alone, and unless an atheist believes that ghosts can be explained by natural means, then they are believing in something supernatural. If ghosts are indeed the spirits of people floating around, then that is beyond the reach of biology, and is in the realm of religion. Just because you believe in ghosts doesn't mean that you believe in God, but it does mean that you believe in spuernatural events.

The issue here is not God vs. Ghosts..... it's Supernatural vs. Natural, and belief in the supernatural is not an atheistic trait.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Sir Barton wrote:

I have to admit I'm surprised at some of the responses that have been posted here. To any one of you who is an atheist and believes in ghosts I'd like to ask this question. What exactly is a ghost and how did they come into existence? The concept of a ghost fits in with religious beliefs because it sounds like we're talking about departed souls and the spirit world. If someone doesn't believe in God then they obviously don't believe that life was created by a God and the only other alternative is that life arose through natural processes. If this is the case what process could have created ghosts? Not believing in God has a number of implications if you've really thought the matter through and this would include a rejection of supernatural beliefs such as the existence of ghosts and the spiritual realm that they inhabit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
buildings-and-bridges wrote:

I think it's more than a single opinion. I've never even heard of an atheist who believed in a spiritual realm until a read a few posts on this thread. The overwhelming majority of atheists believe in nothing supernatural or a spiritual realm. I've been an atheist all of my adult life and am very familiar with the beliefs of atheists, some who are well known writers as well as everyday people like myself. A person who says they're an atheist and yet they believe in ghosts or the spirit world is a walking contradiction.
I've been an atheist since about 10-11 years old and discarded belief in anything supernatural. It doesn't make sense to believe in some supernatural things and then deny the existence of gods. Neither are supported by scientific evidence or accepted by the scientific community. In fact, if I met such an atheist in real life I would definitely think they were kind of an idiot. If you had a personal experience with a "ghost", then how do you know it wasn't a god? It seems like some atheists are trying to seem open-minded and not enclose themselves in a box, but are making atheism seem kind of stupid like religion.

To me, these two statements are equally contradictory.

I believe in an all-loving God, but also one that kills innocent babies and gives virgins to soldiers as gifts of war.

I think the idea of a supernatural God is pure stupidity, however, supernatural ghosts do exist and haunt people.

What?
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:20 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,411,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGC301 View Post
I don't believe in anything 'supernatural', including the 'spiritual realm' or ghosts.



Couldn't leave the 'grossly over-reaching exagerations"* in the noah's ark threads could you?

So now, atheists all over the world are admitting that the bible is correct because a few of them think that ghosts might exist?

*I believe that is how rifleman phrased it.


Well the Bible is not wrong in the eyes of atheists who now believe in ghost. The Bible speaks of the spirit world. And some atheists now believe in such a world. And of course that would confirm a belief that the Bible often speaks of.
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:23 PM
 
7,654 posts, read 6,411,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
"If ghosts were proven to exist, it would not be proof of a god-thing, or proof of an after-life. In fact, it would actually discredit both...."

Except for the absolute knowledge of good and evil.


Ghost often appear as departed loved one's. So some would say that it does prove the existance of an after life. And if they are not the departed. WHO ARE THEY?
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Old 02-28-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
10,030 posts, read 6,505,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Well the Bible is not wrong in the eyes of atheists who now believe in ghost. The Bible speaks of the spirit world. And some atheists now believe in such a world. And of course that would confirm a belief that the Bible often speaks of.

Well lets see here C34, I believe in spirits but I also don't believe in your sacred book, I think it's a book of mythology just like all sacred books are whether it be Christian or Islam. So how do you explain that....... oh and by the way, I'm not an atheist, I'm a spiritualist..
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