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The fact that (most) humans have a set of morals that they try to live by and do instinctively know right from wrong is why I believe we were created by God. In other words, the morals we possess as humans were given to us by God. So it's not that I, as a Christian, don't believe that you, as an unbeliever, aren't capable of having morals, I just beleive that you don't give credit to whom credit is due for the morals that you do possess. I also don't believe that our innate sense of right and wrong is something that could have resulted from the evolutionary process. And I disagree that animals have a distinct sense of right and wrong, if that's what you meant by the bolded statement above.
Frankly considering how consumed SOME religious people are with pointing out the sinfulness of others, how certain people are an abomination because of their sexuality, or less then human because of their race, I think christian morality is an over-rated thing.
Frankly considering how consumed SOME religious people are with pointing out the sinfulness of others, how certain people are an abomination because of their sexuality, or less then human because of their race, I think christian morality is an over-rated thing.
Agreed. In addition, christian morality is just that christian. Any other moral code cannot be considered by christians, so sure are they of their perfection.
What a sour, sneering lot of fundamentalist 'athiests' you are. Why should you lose any sleep because thinking people have reasoned that there must be a superior force behind our incredible universe and the intrinsically designed creatures who inhabit planet earth? Why should it bother you so?
King Solomon said.."The fool, in his heart, has said 'There is no God'." He also said "There is nothing new under the sun". It has all been said before.
What a sour, sneering lot of fundamentalist 'athiests' you are. Why should you lose any sleep because thinking people have reasoned that there must be a superior force behind our incredible universe and the intrinsically designed creatures who inhabit planet earth? Why should it bother you so?
King Solomon said.."The fool, in his heart, has said 'There is no God'." He also said "There is nothing new under the sun". It has all been said before.
There is no such thing as a fundamentalist atheist. We'd have to be an organized religion for that to even be possible. We lack that organization because not all atheists are the same. And sure, only the fool says there is no God. I could just as easily say the same thing about Shiva, Zeus, Thor, Hera, Hades, Vishnu, Krishna, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and they would all be as valid, because such statements and beliefs are based on FAITH.
What a sour, sneering lot of fundamentalist 'athiests' you are. Why should you lose any sleep because thinking people have reasoned that there must be a superior force behind our incredible universe and the intrinsically designed creatures who inhabit planet earth? Why should it bother you so?
King Solomon said.."The fool, in his heart, has said 'There is no God'." He also said "There is nothing new under the sun". It has all been said before.
It's funny ho we all perceive things differently because I have seen many sour, sneery, patronising and judgemental Christians who seem to be rather bothered that some of us are Atheists.
It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you and millions of others believe in a deity. What bothers me is when those people start pointing the finger, threaten us with brimstone and hell-fire and imply that morality can only exist through faith.
People who cannot imagine how someone could possibly exist without a deity in their lives.
People who sneer at that very idea and try to disparage us for being godless.
The "sneeriness" goes both way believe me.
I felt rather indifferent towards Christians until I came to this forum. A lot of the preachiness and self-righteousness has certainly opened my eyes to a certain type of Christianity which is less than appealing.
I am a lot less tolerant towards some than I was a year ago because of some of the attitudes and opinions expressed by some.
Believe me I do not lose sleep over people who have faith. There is no god therefore thinking about it does not occupy a great deal of my time.
I enjoy discussing the philosophical premise of it and finding out what people believe but it's not exactly a big part of my life.
Thank goodness for all the sweet moderate believers on this forum or I would really be freaked out by some posters.
It has been my observation that religion or lack thereof is completely unrelated to morality. There are plenty of very religious people who lie, cheat, and steal and a few murderers. Same with some atheists. There are many more religious people who are really great, honest, kind, and even intelligent people. Also true of atheists. Ergo, there is no correlation to morality and religiosity.
But there is the well-known phenomenon of the preacher's kids who go wild in a direct reaction to overly strict regulation.
I too find it insulting for people to claim I cannot be moral because I don't believe. How very arrogant and sanctimonious. Funny how when my very religious neighbor's house burnt down, it was me who immediately gave them shelter for months and took care of their dog for months longer until they got the house rebuilt. None of the religious neighbors offered much help and they got no help from their church. I didn't give it a second thought that it was just the right thing to do. Didn't matter that I really disagree with their religion. Except for that, they are very nice people.
I see a lot of discussion in regards to how non-believers can be morally just, law abiding, and upstanding citizens when they have no religious affiliation. Personally, this logic makes absolutely no sense to me because religious adherance does not affect ones actions or behaviors.
If it did, we would expect crime rates (adjusted to population numbers) in the US to be lower in relation to less religious coutries, namely, Canada, Japan, Norway, etc - countries which are overwhelmingly secular. We know however, that this is just not the case - the aforementioned countries are some of the safest, and have much lower numbers of violent and non-violent crime than does the US.
Nationally, we might expect to see the same trend - areas of the US in which religious adherance is more widespead, such as the southern United States. Again, we know this is not true, as the southern United States is just as prone to crime as is the rest of the nation.
Furthermore, there is no evidence to suggest that belief of religious philosophy has any affect on ones personal actions - humans, like other animals, have evolved over millions of years, and in most, a distinct sense of right and wrong is firmly imprinted within the psyche. Observing animal populations, there are actions which will get individuals thrown out of the community, ostracized, and even killed, if they break rules, or engage in behavior which could be detrimental to that particular community. And as far as I know, wild animals do not practice religion - clearly, religion and morality are two distinct entities.
So, as a non-believer, I find it personally insulting for religious individuals to suggest that people who reject the notion of a god are in some way morally "unjust". Especially considering the reality that religion has been responsible for more strife, death, suffering, ignorance, and atrocious injustices than free thought ever has.
If anything, it's been my experience that religion is a detrimental control mechanism, as it forces people do adhere to strict, often impossible expectations that is just not reasonable for most. As a result, the person may be more prone to engage in "sins", as what religion deems a "sin", is in fact normal, appropriate human behavior - behavior which has been going on for hundreds of thousands of years before humans developed religion.
With all of this said, my question to believers - specifically believers who judge non-believers as individuals with questionable morals - is why?
The reason Canada, Japan and Norway have low crime is because of their homogenous societies. No groups or religions pitted against each other. It has nothing to do with having religion or having no religion. It has to do with the people being all the same.
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A good upbringing and a hard working conscious will do it
