Spirituality Defined (virtual, evidence, differences, difference)
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But I'm inspired to try again. If I can convince myself that a daily minute or two even just attempting to meditate with a very occasional success is better than no time at all, perhaps I'll stick with it this time.
Remember that it's legitimate to ask others in the household to afford you this time.
My wife and I have a tacit agreement that the master bedroom is her private place during the day and she uses it as desired to calm herself, sometimes via meditation practice, sometimes just as quiet time. There's a bed in my office that I can use if I want to.
Of course we both work from home offices so this kind of personal space is doubly important for us.
If you have young children then it's not that simple, I understand, but even there, you can maybe figure out some help from spouse or parents or childcare such that you can get a couple of good "me times" per week. It is a matter of making the effort, which, I understand, is hard to do unless you know whether it's worth the effort in the first place.
In our secular meditation class it was pointed out that being present in everyday tasks, like doing the dishes, is also better than nothing. Noticing the feelings / sensations in the moment, even when your attention can't be long or fully upon them, is at least practicing mindfulness. I have found this latter to be the most useful for me personally ... your mileage can and will, of course, vary. I look forward to early morning, a hot latte, and my various start of the day work routines and dipping into these fora, etc., and try to be very aware of what I am feeling physically and emotionally and to detach from my worries and cares and frustrations.
Really if there is any value to mindfulness it is found in integrating it into as many aspects of your daily life as possible, as organically as possible, anyway. I find some value in being present moment-focused and letting go of rigid idealistic fretting about everything that's not as desired / expected. It is a very pragmatic notion, when divorced of all the attendant woo that people tend to want to put on it.
Thanks, mordant. Good thoughts. Yeah, I have younger ones still, and older ones with lots going on which, combined, creates a rather erratic and hectic schedule. But I agree that my biggest stumbling block is my own "fretting" all-or-nothing attitude.
That makes no sense. Perhaps you said so only because you are unhappy that I label some perspectives you personally support as fundamentalist. Either way, it degrades the credence of what you post to post such frivolous nonsense. You can just say you disagree and be done with it, without any silly games playing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
By calling spirituality an actuality, you are making a knowledge claim
Not at all. I deliberately didn't say it was reality. People actually do have thoughts and ideas even though you cannot touch them. Again, there is no need to post such frivolous nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
... spirituality (or anything else really) ... is whatever each individual says it means to them.
Though they'd perhaps deny it, that's actually true of Catholics, Jews, Muslims and Hindus as well. That's the point, but given the games you're playing I accept that you probably won't acknowledge it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
By that logic then if I say that spirituality is completely unreal and irrelevant to me than that is what it means to me.
No. That's not "logic". It's obtuseness. If you don't want to have a mature conversation, then why post a reply?
Oh, but some are. Read the posts of the most strident fundamentalist posters. They MOCK people who think God is love. They make a point of saying God is an angry God and justified in sending people to hell and sending floods and fireballs from the sky to destroy.
They HATE the idea of a hippie dippie loving Jesus and make a point of telling the people who believe it they are wrong.
Maybe you make a distinction between labeling something an "actuality" and labeling it "reality" then. If something is actual it is considered real in my book, as well as in the dictionary which defines "actuality" as "actual existence, typically as contrasted with what was intended, expected, or believed" and includes as synonyms "realty", "fact" and "truth".
But perhaps by using "actuality" you mean that the belief exists rather than that it represents reality.
Forgive me if I am suspicious of such obtuseness. Particularly when a perfectly logical observation is dismissed out of hand as "frivolous nonsense". Particularly when you label the exact same kinds of observations in others to be "fundamentalist".
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Though they'd perhaps deny it, that's actually true of Catholics, Jews, Muslims and Hindus as well. That's the point, but given the games you're playing I accept that you probably won't acknowledge it.
I agree with you and don't see why you would think I wouldn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
No. That's not "logic". It's obtuseness. If you don't want to have a mature conversation, then why post a reply?
A "mature conversation" does not necessarily agree with you in all respects. You of all people should know that.
You're very welcome! I began my meditation practices 30 years ago. I never needed anything to compel me other than my earnest desire and curiosity. Once I began and found the best practice for me it was evident how beneficial it was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
I have tried to make meditation a regular practice, but I live in a household where it is nigh on impossible for me to have more than, literally, a minute or two of uninterrupted quiet time to myself.
Yikes this is not good at all. I never had this situation and no doubt I would not have been successful in that type of situation. That's a tough one. Is there any place you can go to get away from the interruptions and noise? Even if it is outside or at a meditation chapel? How about earplugs and start out with guided meditations on breathing or relaxation?
I starting out with those types of meditations in order to get my brain accustomed to meditation. Once you are experienced with guided meditations you can venture in to your own personalized way of meditating.
Word of caution...there are tons of meditation materials out there. You have to keep trying until you find the one that works best for you. You will be drawn to what you need when you start to develop your own practice.
You can find tons of guided meditations on YouTube. Hook up to some earplugs and start your journey!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
But I'm inspired to try again. If I can convince myself that a daily minute or two even just attempting to meditate with a very occasional success is better than no time at all, perhaps I'll stick with it this time.
Don't feel bad I have not meditated in a long time. I also feel inspired to get back into that routine.
Yes just one or even two minutes a day will make an impact!
Maybe you make a distinction between labeling something an "actuality" and labeling it "reality" then. If something is actual it is considered real in my book
Ah. So everything is black and white for you... either a physical object you can hold in your hand or utterly and completely imaginary and worthy only of derision. Liberty, justice, fairness - all are silly and nonsensical to you.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think that crystallizes our discussion very well.
Ah. So everything is black and white for you... either a physical object you can hold in your hand or utterly and completely imaginary and worthy only of derision. Liberty, justice, fairness - all are silly and nonsensical to you.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think that crystallizes our discussion very well.
Ah. So everything is black and white for you... either a physical object you can hold in your hand or utterly and completely imaginary and worthy only of derision. Liberty, justice, fairness - all are silly and nonsensical to you.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think that crystallizes our discussion very well.
Maybe in your mind, where I was saying things entirely other than what I actually said, it does.
My actual point was that if something has actuality then it represents reality -- as the word is ordinarily used. I was actually meeting you more than halfway by theorizing that maybe you don't use the word as most others do.
I believe that liberty, justice, fairness, love, etc., are real concepts that represent real thoughts and I value those ideals as much as the next person. Never said otherwise.
It is interesting that justice, although an abstract concept with many possible implementations, is something that there isn't all that much disagreement about here in shared reality. What feels (if I may coin a term) "justicy" to me probably is pretty similar to what feels "justicy" to you. We will of course have specific disagreements: one person may feel that Kim Davis going to jail was justice, others will think it a travesty of justice and clear "evidence" of persecution. But I don't think those same two people would disagree about how justice subjectively feels ... that it feels like your treasured values and beliefs win out in the end, against all odds and opposition -- because some authority you are under is there to defend those values. So at least where we have a difference of opinion on such a matter we can focus on the "values" and standards of judgment as the source of the problem rather than on the concept of "justice" itself being flaky or deficient.
On the other hand when it comes to spirituality ... there seems to be a very wide variety of what feels "spiritual" to different people. One person might feel that smoking pot or taking an LSD trip is very spiritual, another might think it merely criminal or self indulgent. One person might feel that running is spiritual, another may regard it as merely an athletic endeavor. One person might feel that speaking in tongues is spiritual, another may regard it as histrionics, yet another may regard it as spiritual in the negative sense of inviting evil spirits to control your speech faculties.
So to be abundantly clear, my attitude about spirituality is that it is only what various people say it is, to them, nothing more and nothing less, and has exactly zero authority or validity (or reality, or actuality) to anyone other than the person pursuing their particular favored form of "spirituality".
Maybe in your mind, where I was saying things entirely other than what I actually said, it does.
My actual point was that if something has actuality then it represents reality -- as the word is ordinarily used. I was actually meeting you more than halfway by theorizing that maybe you don't use the word as most others do.
I believe that liberty, justice, fairness, love, etc., are real concepts that represent real thoughts and I value those ideals as much as the next person. Never said otherwise.
It is interesting that justice, although an abstract concept with many possible implementations, is something that there isn't all that much disagreement about here in shared reality. What feels (if I may coin a term) "justicy" to me probably is pretty similar to what feels "justicy" to you. We will of course have specific disagreements: one person may feel that Kim Davis going to jail was justice, others will think it a travesty of justice and clear "evidence" of persecution. But I don't think those same two people would disagree about how justice subjectively feels ... that it feels like your treasured values and beliefs win out in the end, against all odds and opposition -- because some authority you are under is there to defend those values. So at least where we have a difference of opinion on such a matter we can focus on the "values" and standards of judgment as the source of the problem rather than on the concept of "justice" itself being flaky or deficient.
On the other hand when it comes to spirituality ... there seems to be a very wide variety of what feels "spiritual" to different people. One person might feel that smoking pot or taking an LSD trip is very spiritual, another might think it merely criminal or self indulgent. One person might feel that running is spiritual, another may regard it as merely an athletic endeavor. One person might feel that speaking in tongues is spiritual, another may regard it as histrionics, yet another may regard it as spiritual in the negative sense of inviting evil spirits to control your speech faculties.
So to be abundantly clear, my attitude about spirituality is that it is only what various people say it is, to them, nothing more and nothing less, and has exactly zero authority or validity (or reality, or actuality) to anyone other than the person pursuing their particular favored form of "spirituality".
Regardless of the differences in how people go about it, it seems "spirituality" to most people does mean basically the same thing: it's a desire to connect to something more expansive than self. People call it God or Goddess, nature, higher self, etc. Still, in many (or most or maybe even all) cases, spirituality at it's core is about a sense of connection.
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If I can convince myself that a daily minute or two even just attempting to meditate with a very occasional success is better than no time at all, perhaps I'll stick with it this time.
