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Old 10-03-2015, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,162 posts, read 26,118,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post

The fact that you are awake during meditation (how do you know that you are awake?) because you are 100% aware and you are in control of your thoughts and emotions during deep meditation. This is the goal!
My husband have end stage severe COPD. Panic would occur during episodes of extreme shortness of breath.
He had to learn to only concentrate on breathing....nothing else...breathe in slowing and calmly, exhale slowly and calmly...all other thoughts would disappear and the panic would dissipate.
He was obviously still in control but the fact that he....and you....were still in control, just suggests something else to me than what you state is 'not thinking'.
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,231,599 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
My husband have end stage severe COPD. Panic would occur during episodes of extreme shortness of breath.
He had to learn to only concentrate on breathing....nothing else...breathe in slowing and calmly, exhale slowly and calmly...all other thoughts would disappear and the panic would dissipate.
He was obviously still in control but the fact that he....and you....were still in control, just suggests something else to me than what you state is 'not thinking'.
Having awareness and calming your emotions through breathing and relaxing are the steps you take on your way to achieving deep trance meditation. Once you get to the deep trace level you are no longer focusing your attention on calming your emotions and on quieting the mind chatter. You will be in a deep trance state of mind and even though you are fully awake and aware...you are not thinking nor are you focusing your attention on quieting the mind.

What your husband is doing is what they refer to mindful meditation. He is shutting out all thoughts and just simply being mindful of his breathing.

Achieving a deep trance meditation can be achieved in many ways. It is a step wise process until you reach that level of meditation. Some start out by relaxing their body via breathing techniques...once you have your body relaxed you can forget about the breathing techniques since you no longer need them once you have achieved being relaxed. Next you work on quieting your mind. Once that is achieved then you no longer have to worry about it. Not many can just plop down and immediately be in a deep trance state of meditation. I have only seen monks who have been training since childhood on a daily basis on how to achieve deep meditation able to do this. They have mastered it. However, for the rest of us it's a step-wise process.

I hope this helps to clarify it.

Last edited by Matadora; 10-03-2015 at 04:51 PM..
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:42 PM
 
Location: USA
18,461 posts, read 9,106,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Having awareness and calming your emotions through breathing and relaxing are the steps you take on your way to achieving deep trance meditation. Once you get to the deep trace level you are not longer focusing your attention on calming your emotions and on quieting the mind chatter. You will be in a deep trance state of mind and even though you are fully awake and aware...you are not thinking nor are you focusing your attention on quieting the mind.

I hope this helps to clarify it.
I thought that was just called "spacing out."
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:46 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,521,721 times
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you quite the noise in your head and you begin to feel the connections to your surroundings. Just because some don't understand or feel them doesn't mean those connections are not real. In fact, the connections are real, so we would need to start there before mocking people.
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freak80 View Post
i thought that was just called "spacing out."
lol
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,162 posts, read 26,118,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Having awareness and calming your emotions through breathing and relaxing are the steps you take on your way to achieving deep trance meditation. Once you get to the deep trace level you are not longer focusing your attention on calming your emotions and on quieting the mind chatter. You will be in a deep trance state of mind and even though you are fully awake and aware...you are not thinking nor are you focusing your attention on quieting the mind.

I hope this helps to clarify it.

No, afraid it doesn't. He wasn't worried about not being able to breath (which induces the feelings of panic) or thinking about what he was doing or it wouldn't have worked...he would have been conflicted.
I guess what I have the problem with is if you are ....consciously...striving to do something, then you ARE still thinking....whether you see it as that or not.
I would have to say I'm simply not going to be able to agree with you (or, I will allow the possibility, not understand)as to what constitutes 'thinking' and 'not thinking'.
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,162 posts, read 26,118,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
you quite the noise in your head and you begin to feel the connections to your surroundings. Just because some don't understand or feel them doesn't mean those connections are not real. In fact, the connections are real, so we would need to start there before mocking people.
Ah ha! But Matadora claims she is also not feeling.
I think many of us achieve the feeling of oneness with whatever they are trying to connect to.


I tend to assume 'she' simply due to the 'a" ending of the name which generally is a feminine ending.

Last edited by old_cold; 10-03-2015 at 04:56 PM.. Reason: name
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Old 10-03-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,231,599 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
No, afraid it doesn't. He wasn't worried about not being able to breath (which induces the feelings of panic) or thinking about what he was doing or it wouldn't have worked...he would have been conflicted.
I guess what I have the problem with is if you are ....consciously...striving to do something, then you ARE still thinking....whether you see it as that or not.
I would have to say I'm simply not going to be able to agree with you (or, I will allow the possibility, not understand)as to what constitutes 'thinking' and 'not thinking'.
That's not how it works in meditation. It's a step wise process of focusing attention vs. striving. You want to put a stop to effort when meditating.

You go through a step wise process of relaxing body and mind. Then quieting the mind. Once you have achieved all of the above, the focus ends and you are in a deep state of meditation.

Why would you keep trying to relax once you are already there? Why would you keep trying to focus your attention on quieting your mind after you have achieved this and can hold this state of mind? Once you master being able to hold this state of mind that is when you are in deep trance meditation.
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Old 10-03-2015, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,231,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Ah ha! But Matadora claims she is also not feeling.
I think many of us achieve the feeling of oneness with whatever they are trying to connect to.

I tend to assume 'she' simply due to the 'a" ending of the name which generally is a feminine ending.
I think he meant sense them or be aware of them. Yes you certainly sense our connection to all the energies around us. It happens when you are communing with nature and quieting your mind in order to sense subtle energies.

Since this energy is always present but we don't feel connected is due to this god awful dream humans created for us to exist in. These energies are always present you just have to calm your mind and emotions and learn what those energies feel like in order to recognize them.

I sense then all the time. I don't have to be in a meditative state of mind to sense these energies. Simple quiet your mind and and observe.

Some us have a very strong "6th" sense. I am one of them...I've had it since childhood and never ignored it. All of us have it but most have suppressed it and or ignored it as they age. Those people need to work on developing this sense. Meditation practice can help strengthen your 6th sense.

Yes I am a female.
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Old 10-04-2015, 05:13 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,679,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Excuse my interruption, but something you said is inaccurate.

The vast majority of atheists DO say "I don't know."
Unless you are saying that Freak is the official spokesperson for all atheists, everywhere, I didn't say anything contrary to that. Please go back and read my message again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Whether they label themselves this way or not, almost all (if not all) atheists I've met, read about, or listened to was an agnostic atheist. The two terms are not mutually exclusive.
I actually posted in the comment you replied to a dichotomy between fundamentalist atheists, on the one side, and live-and-let-live agnostics and theists, on the other side. It truly seems as if you didn't read my message correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
We don't merely say, "There's no proof." We say "there MIGHT be SOME kind of God out there, but there is no evidence and no proof. Therefore, we're not going to accept religion, dogma, or pretend we believe absolutely that a god exists."
Again, unless you are saying that Freak is the official spokesperson for all atheists, everywhere, I didn't say anything contrary to that. Please go back and read my message again, and you'll see that what I highlighted was the way some, the aforementioned fundamentalist atheists, regard people who regard the mysteries differently from them. I used the term "isn't about you" to punctuate the point that it is not about what those fundamentalist atheists think or feel, but rather about how they treat others, how they interact with others. They have a choice: They can behave just like the fundamentalist Christians that they assail, and therefore be hypocrites, or they can be better than the fundamentalist Christians that they assail, and refrain from allowing their own beliefs and values to affect the way they regard people who hold different beliefs and values from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
What gets me about this debate is how it is religion that proposes that God exists ... and not just an unknowable god, but GOD, the one represented in their holy books.
Yes, for sure, you haven't read the message to which you replied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
See the problem here?
I sure do: You haven't read the message to which you replied. Again, please go back and read my messages again, so that you can understand what it is you're replying to before you reply.
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