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Well I won't go down that road as it would be a derail, but let's just say, to the point of the OP, religious teachings COULD be more flexible in application to everyday life in this area. Given for the sake of argument that it's a failure to set expectations properly, I submit that there is a huge motivation to make empty promises of peace, joy and tranquility, blessings for the righteous, punishment for the wicked, etc., because without that value proposition it's hard to make the package relevant or interesting to people's actual needs. People really don't want to find out that in this life at least, their lives aren't at least somewhat likely to be improved by god's presence in it. I hate to make it sound mercenary, but it's just human nature to want to feel better, be at peace, and feel safe.
hmmm...maybe it's also human nature to say dissemble with personal responsibility? A marriage is a covenant. The Church, of course, wants those who go into that 'sacrament' with a positive frame of mind. And of course, there is notice that they are marrying for 'richer or poorer, in sickness and in health'. It isn't a game where rules can be changed all the time. After marriage, life intrudes and human frailties come into play. But, at the same time, there's the opportunity for individuals to rise up and work though the marriage. Vows were made and that is a part of marriage that cannot be dismissed so lightly.
A priest told my wife that our newborn son was a bastard because we were not married in a church. My wife told him that he was not a true representative of Jesus and to get the hell out of her hospital room.
That was 35 years ago. Now our son is middle-aged and happily married with two daughters.
It is not and should not be about rules. ANYthing that looks like a rule should be treated as a guideline subject to review in the light of what is in the best interest of all people involved. This is agape and the point of the "New Commandment."
It is not and should not be about rules. ANYthing that looks like a rule should be treated as a guideline subject to review in the light of what is in the best interest of all people involved. This is agape and the point of the "New Commandment."
hmmm...maybe it's also human nature to say dissemble with personal responsibility? A marriage is a covenant. The Church, of course, wants those who go into that 'sacrament' with a positive frame of mind. And of course, there is notice that they are marrying for 'richer or poorer, in sickness and in health'. It isn't a game where rules can be changed all the time. After marriage, life intrudes and human frailties come into play. But, at the same time, there's the opportunity for individuals to rise up and work though the marriage. Vows were made and that is a part of marriage that cannot be dismissed so lightly.
Well this is exactly my point. I entered it with a positive frame of mind and didn't dismiss my marriage lightly. I stuck with it for 15 years, despite it being abusive toward me and my children and emotionally costly to persevere. It takes two to tango, as they say, and the emphasis on "rising up and working through" issues is doomed unless there is equal commitment to the same goals by both partners. This also implies equal ability.
I never changed the rules, I adhered to them. The idea that somehow it all works out so long as you remain committed is pretty naive.
This meme resurfaces a lot in evangelical Christianity, this idea of "rising up" and redoubling and tripling one's efforts and Never Give Up That Ship. And it is applied in such a ham-fisted and tone-deaf manner that whatever value there is in perseverance is lost. It ends up, often, being that old business of not admitting that something isn't working, and rather than doing something different, doing the same thing, only more earnestly. It causes untold suffering, frankly.
It plays out on a smaller scale in business. Someone has an arbitrary deadline, an arbitrary budget, and a blue-skied non-negotiable wish list for features and expect me to create this software on their schedule and budget. Oh and by the way, it's what the boss wants, not what the field personnel actually asked for or needed. And then it's all my fault somehow if I'm naive enough to take on such a project on their terms and it fails or the users refuse to adopt it.
Thanks, but I've learned, in business and in my personal life, not to go to such places. I'd prefer that I could work miracles professionally and I'd prefer that marriage Just Works if you are sincere and try hard enough but neither thing is a valid basis for actually accomplishing anything. Also: someone's preconceived idea of how marriage or anything else succeeds or fails is no substitute for how it actually succeeds or fails. Some vague hand-waving assertion that "god will bless" your marriage and to "have faith" and wait it out is just so much wishful thinking.
It is not and should not be about rules. ANYthing that looks like a rule should be treated as a guideline subject to review in the light of what is in the best interest of all people involved. This is agape and the point of the "New Commandment."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Is that a rule?
No, Vizio . . . it is a description of the process to avoid making rigid rules for dynamic and fluid human issues . . . like so much of church dogma.
It is not and should not be about rules. ANYthing that looks like a rule should be treated as a guideline subject to review in the light of what is in the best interest of all people involved. This is agape and the point of the "New Commandment."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Is that a rule?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
No, Vizio . . . it is a description of the process to avoid making rigid rules for dynamic and fluid human issues . . . like so much of church dogma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Sure seemed like a rule.
Well, reading comprehension is an acquired skill that not many master, Vizio. It is the polar opposite of a rigid rule which requires strict adherence. It is one of those "thinking" things that most dogmatists avoid like the plague.
Some vague hand-waving assertion that "god will bless" your marriage and to "have faith" and wait it out is just so much wishful thinking.
Well I'd think each marriage is very unique. What works for one will not work for another. The couples involved are involved on a journey and the journey could be difficult. In the Catholic faith, the fact of God blessing the marriage is not said simply in passing or as an aside. I wouldn't call it vague hand-waving. It is made with full sincerity to see the marriage grow and the two individuals increase their love for another and their family.
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