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However that is not the definition of sacrifice. And would you not be sacrificing yourself to save another? that is what Jesus did.
But according to YOUR definition Sacrifice is giving something up in return for something GREATER.
Sacrifice: An act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.
Doing something such as giving up something of value with NO REGARDS to REWARD, is MORE than SACRIFICE, it is even greater than LOVE....
Sacrifice ought to be defined as GIVING UP THAT WHICH IS MOST PRECIOUS in FAVOR Of ANOTHER HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO ATTAIN THE SAME with NO REGARDS TO REWARD or REPLACEMENT.
However that is not the definition of sacrifice. And would you not be sacrificing yourself to save another? that is what Jesus did.
He didn't sacrifice himself to save others. He "died" and then went right back to where he came from. If I could die today and save a city full of people, or the world or whatever, knowing that I would wake up tomorrow in the bed I had just left, then is it REALLY a sacrifice? To sacrifice something, you have to actually be GIVING UP something. What did Jesus give up? His human form? Please...
This may be the "missing" concept so many others have yet to recognize. No, it doesn't have to be acted on to be proven, ones KNOWS if this is true for them and when people are able to think / believe / or hold to this idea, LIFE IMPROVES and LOVE is understood.
Exactly. I may not be a Christian, or even a believer for that matter, but I KNOW for a fact I would give my life for others if needed. I have been in a situation, in a former city of mine, where a man had a gun and was threatening to kill a woman for cutting him off to pull into a gas station. The lady had two kids in the back of her car, probably 2 and 4 years old, that were crying their eyes out. I chose to step between the man and the woman, and give her a chance to get out of the situation. She had just started pumping gas at the time, and managed to sling the pump out, jump in and take off while I distracted him. Luckily it turned out ok, as he turned out to be exactly what I thought he was, which is to say, a punk who won't do anything if he doesn't necessarily have the upper hand.
Point is, I did so without thinking about what would happen if he shot me, or where I would go if I died. Maybe Jesus would have to if he didn't already know where he was going, but we can never know that. Had I known I was going to be shot dead, and that I would wake up the next morning in my bed all better, then it wouldn't have taken much to step in front of the guy. The same goes with Jesus. He knew where he was going, so it didn't take much to be willing.
Funny is it not that when a scientist believes in something he will give the arguments, the evidence, the data and the reasons for his belief and he will say THIS is of course why I believe.
A theist will give their denomination.
Yes I expect people, myself included, to substantiate what they say. If you do not, then that will be a barrier. So try try again.
whether one believes in Jesus Christ or not is irrelevant, this is NOT about belief, it is about the story of Jesus sacrifice period. You have stated that it was not a sacrifice, I showed you the dictionary definition of sacrifice which shows the story is of a sacrifice. Deal with it.
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Except, unlike you, I have actually laid out the arguments and reasoning behind calling your position incorrect. So try try again.
You laid out an incorrect understanding of what you think a sacrifice is, I proved your understanding of a sacrifice to be in error. Again deal with it.
here is your wrong understanding.
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Yeah right. In the fairy tale the character in question is said to now be sitting in a state of eternal bliss and dominion. That is the opposite of "tasting death". You call that a sacrifice? That is a mockery of the concept of sacrifice, and an insult to anyone who actually has given their life for a person, a place, or an ideal.
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Do you even know the meaning of the words you just used when defining sacrifice? Here let me help you out. The character in the book IS STILL ALIVE. So the character did not GIVE UP LIFE. So anyone calling his "death" a sacrifice might OWN a dictionary and might be CAPABLE of looking up the words "sacrifice" and "death" but they are clearly not understanding what the definitions are telling them.
Sorry wrong again, the story goes He gave up his life but was resurrected again to life. Gave up something to gain something greater. proper definition of sacrifice.
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So I am afraid posting dictionary definitions is not helping your case, but mine. So try try again.
Don't need to try again just proved you to be in error again.
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I have not said this, expressed this thought, implied it implicitly or explicitly or anything of the sort. Once again you have decided to tell me what I think, even though it is not something I have ever thought or espoused. Perhaps I should keep a tally at this point of how many times I have been compelled to pick YOUR words out of MY mouth. So try try again.
Sure you did, here are your words again
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The crap that the Jesus story pedals at us is entirely different. He was described as making no such sacrifice. Rather he traded his relatively insignificant short life, and a relatively mild bout of torture, for a life of eternal bliss and dominion. I see no sacrifice there. I see a mockery of the concept of sacrifice there
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I stated "And your other problem is you are making up your own definition of sacrifice".
You stated.
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Except I have done no such thing, anywhere, ever. So try try again.
Here are your word again.
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If the story had been that he was OFFERED eternal bliss and dominion but chose instead the True Death.... that would at least be a story worthy of the telling.
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There have been many people who have given their lives for a person, place, cause or ideal. And they did so without any promise of an after life, or eternal bliss or dominion. Theirs is a real sacrifice.
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Life, history and present day, is chock full of people making genuine sacrifices that we can hold up and praise. We do not need some crass unsubstantiated bronze aged nonsense about a guy who probably did not exist, making a sacrifice that was not really a sacrifice.
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Nope, disagreeing with a point is not missing the point. Quite the opposite in fact, so let us not pretend otherwise any longer. The point stands. Any person living this life who is given the opportunity to obtain eternal bliss and dominion, and takes it, is not making a "sacrifice". Unless of course they do not WANT eternal bliss and dominion, then of course accepting it is not a sacrifice.
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The Jesus character did no such thing. The character had nothing to lose, everything to gain. That is the exact antithesis of "sacrifice" no matter how many colorful fonts you use to deny it.
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No, because no sacrifice is or was made in the story
Every quote of yours shows either a lack of understanding of the definition of sacrifice or your own definition of sacrifice. So no matter how you want to slice it Nozz you have been proven wrong concerning the story. Whether your big enough to admit it is another thing.
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Except he did no such thing in your story book of choice _because he is still alive_. So try try again.
Ever here of the resurrection? No! it part of the story, guess you forgot that.
He didn't sacrifice himself to save others. He "died" and then went right back to where he came from. If I could die today and save a city full of people, or the world or whatever, knowing that I would wake up tomorrow in the bed I had just left, then is it REALLY a sacrifice? To sacrifice something, you have to actually be GIVING UP something. What did Jesus give up? His human form? Please...
Please indeed, have I not said from the beginning that I do not follow the chuches understanding concerning Jesus sacrifice? Yup I did.
So here again is Jesus sacrifice.
He left all that he had to taste death for everyone that he might show them how to live and bring many sons to glory.
He did not come here for himself, here came here for us.
Exactly. I may not be a Christian, or even a believer for that matter, but I KNOW for a fact I would give my life for others if needed. I have been in a situation, in a former city of mine, where a man had a gun and was threatening to kill a woman for cutting him off to pull into a gas station. The lady had two kids in the back of her car, probably 2 and 4 years old, that were crying their eyes out. I chose to step between the man and the woman, and give her a chance to get out of the situation. She had just started pumping gas at the time, and managed to sling the pump out, jump in and take off while I distracted him. Luckily it turned out ok, as he turned out to be exactly what I thought he was, which is to say, a punk who won't do anything if he doesn't necessarily have the upper hand.
Point is, I did so without thinking about what would happen if he shot me, or where I would go if I died. Maybe Jesus would have to if he didn't already know where he was going, but we can never know that. Had I known I was going to be shot dead, and that I would wake up the next morning in my bed all better, then it wouldn't have taken much to step in front of the guy. The same goes with Jesus. He knew where he was going, so it didn't take much to be willing.
All that is very good SB but again that is NOT the point. NOZZ started this by saying the story of Jesus is not a story of sacrifice. Just by giving the dictionary definition of sacrifice I showed Nozz to be incorrect.
Now you, like Z might like his definition better then the dictionary definition but that is again not the point. According to the dictionary definition of sacrifice the story of Jesus matches the meaning of a sacrifice.
All that is very good SB but again that is NOT the point. NOZZ started this by saying the story of Jesus is not a story of sacrifice. Just by giving the dictionary definition of sacrifice I showed Nozz to be incorrect.
Now you, like Z might like his definition better then the dictionary definition but that is again not the point. According to the dictionary definition of sacrifice the story of Jesus matches the meaning of a sacrifice.
Do you agree, yes or no and if no why not?
According to your definition: Sacrifice: An act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.
What did Jesus give up? A few years in heaven? So he could come down here and teach us all how to live and bring us to glory?
According to your holy book, the only reason we need to "be brought to glory", or "be saved" is because your god threw a tantrum and decided we weren't good enough for him. So he sent "his only son", to "sacrifice" himself for us. Not only does that make absolutely zero sense, it also wasn't much of a sacrifice, since he knew where he was going once he made said "sacrifice".
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