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You believe wrong. I don't want to see anyone suffer.
You stated your, "faith doesn't allow you to be silent". THAT sounds very "Fundamentalist Ideologue" to me...they regularly try justify what they do and say by claiming "their faith demands it".
I was wondering if you could hip me to what would happen if you were to do anyway what you were supposedly "not allowed" to do? My list of things was just the typical that I see many faiths claim can happen to those that do things they are not "allowed" to do. Was it not?
Oh, and...I DO believe those punishments are all "fantasy". Just as I know it is a "fantasy" that some "faith" would keep you from being silent, and demonstrate tolerance and understanding, instead of getting on the case of people that don't think or believe the way you do. "Smack on them" as I said.
You can try to purport that you are compelled through "faith" to be biased and intolerant toward others that don't think or believe like you, and that you must "correct them"...all the Fundies claim that...but, of course, it is THAT which is the "fantasy" being put out as something real here.
You COULD be silent...you just prefer busting on people that have differing opinions and/or ways from you. The TRUE "Fundie Ideologue Indicator".
I have not brought punishment into the conversation. Why did you? I have never related my faith to punishment and aggression. You have. Smack is your term. Correction is mine.
As a person of faith, I am never silent on matters involving the marginalization of your brothers and sisters in the community. I would cease to be a person of faith if I chose to ignore fundamentalist ideologues who use God as a cudgel.
I tolerate you, and have no intention of not tolerating you. You still require correction. That is where I come in.
I do not use the word "fundie." It is far too narrow.
I do not feel the need to justify my faith to you and your "Fundie" meter. Are you hip yet?
The "evolved morality" as you call it, is much different than serrated teeth and any other physical characteristic, in that it is an abstract construct purposefully created by sentient beings. And these sentient beings (e.g. "us") made it in order to preserve ourselves and add quality to our lives. It really isn;t much more complicated than that, at a high level.
Objective morality is not only unnecessary (as evidenced by the fact that we don't create our laws by them), but it is not even any more objective if one inserts god(s) into the fray. Your "objective" morality is still still the "subjective" morality of your god(s). And proclaiming it to be objective, when you have no idea how many worlds, universes, or realities this same god (or gods) created, doesn't make it so.
And further....your entire basis for even following the "objective" morality of some god(s), is itself...wait for it...subjective. You have no objective evidence for anybody to even consider the case for your so-called objective morality. Only subjective experiences or special pleading.
If I am reading you correctly, I believe you are agreeing with me.
Sentience means nothing. It is simply a trait that our species have evolved and cannot hold any higher or deeper meaning than gills or tails. As I said, and as you pointed out, in an infinite number of possible outcomes, there is no reason to hold that the one we reside is any better or worse, any moral or immoral than any other.
The issue is authority. You personally have no real authority to label any other moral viewpoint as right or wrong, because such labels are meaningless. Other individuals come from different societies, different genetics and your particular beliefs are just as valid as theirs. So you cannot, therefore, claim that homosexual behavior is moral for all people at all possible times because you have no moral authority on which to base such a statement. The best you can say is that it is your opinion, or your personal taste, or that of your tribe, or clan or society. This is still completely subjective and doesn't mean it is, in fact, true.
That being proven, you know that this isn't true and hence where the issue lies. Because if you follow the rabbit hole of naturalism to its logical conclusion, you eventually come to the truth that there is no right, no wrong, no good, and no evil, just indifference and finally nihilism. The issue is that you know this wrong. You know that torturing babies for fun is immoral and reprehensible and there is no universe, no evolutionary path, no society where it would be a good and moral act.
So here you are, in a logical and philosophical paradox.
If there is no transcendant, objective law-giver, then good and evil don't exist. However, God does exist and that is why we have a morality that is objective and applicable to all people for all time. To reject this is to claim that an act such as 'torturing babies for fun' is not immoral, just in bad taste depending in which society the act occurs.
You are an active participant, and you complain about it. So just stop. Who starts threads is unimportant.
You also seem to think it is important that you have never started a "homosexual" thread. Please accept this pat on the back for such an accomplishment.
No, I'm not complaining about anything. You are incorrect.
Nope. I don't make posts describing gay sex or sexual organs. I have absolutely zero interest in other people's sex lives unless they are using a child, a sex slave or an animal.
But you're here discussing homosexuality, while you could be feeding hungry children.
The trick, jimmiej is to get YOU to realize what you mean by the words. What you are talking about is "offensive to MY nature," or "I don't like it."
No. What I meant was that is uses the body in an unnatural way.
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