U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 11-01-2015, 01:45 PM
 
24,760 posts, read 26,839,776 times
Reputation: 22794

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
There is fundamentalist atheism just like there is fundamentalist Christianity, albeit it is destructive in different ways
I'm with you up to this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
and the damage is nowhere near as severe and widespread.
...but not on this point. How can people forget the communist USSR and China? It's amazing how people can cherry pick.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-01-2015, 02:40 PM
 
Location: TN
1,273 posts, read 711,676 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I'm with you up to this point.



...but not on this point. How can people forget the communist USSR and China? It's amazing how people can cherry pick.
But the claim is those weren't really atheist Regimes, just anti organized religion because of the threat the church or other religious group is to the power of the state. Also throw in N Korea.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,573,982 times
Reputation: 6006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
I'm with you up to this point.



...but not on this point. How can people forget the communist USSR and China? It's amazing how people can cherry pick.
Communism and atheism are two different things. Learn the difference.

One is a political system advocating class warfare and all property being publicly owned. The other is a very narrow statement of unbelief in any deities and says zero about political or ideological affiliations or attachments. Communism is not inherently atheistic and atheism is not inherently communist. Frankly they don't even tend to be.

I for example am an atheist and am not a communist nor do I lean that way. On the other hand I once knew a devout Roman Catholic who was a communist. I suspect there quite a lot of those in Eastern Europe and the Soviet bloc and parts of Latin America.

This confused thinking about mixed ideologies is so prevalent and baseless that when I encounter it I default to believing that it's deliberately obtuse, especially in countries like the US where ignorance, paranoia and fear of anything to the left of Ronald Reagan is easy to leverage by lumping it into one pot. Most Americans for example think that democratic socialism, socialism, trade unionism and communism are all in essence the same thing and usually associate them all with the label "godless" as if one naturally gives rise to the other -- or has anything really to do with it.

And let's not forget the charge of "un-American" which you can get in some quarters simply by thinking Medicare is a great thing. If you're relatively liberal politically in this country many think you're on a greased slippery slope leading directly to being a commie ... and not just any commie, a godless one.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 05:16 PM
 
34,630 posts, read 8,924,012 times
Reputation: 4804
The time is going to come quite son when it dawns on the US that fundamentalist religion is pulling two con trics - That it is god for family values and it is patriotic. It is fine so long as the family is all serving the religion, but if not, break up the family.

If the state is supporting conservative religion, that's fine. wave the flag. If it isn't -attack the state.

and to get back on topic. To put Einstein into perspective:

"The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exist as an independent cause of natural events. ..."

- Albert Einstein, Science and Religion (1941)

To make it quite clear, though he had ideas about an order in the universe that he called God and seemed to think that it was aware, this had nothing to do with the God of the Bible - in which he did not believe At All.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-01-2015 at 05:27 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 06:10 PM
 
8,613 posts, read 11,898,858 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
To make it quite clear, though he had ideas about an order in the universe that he called God and seemed to think that it was aware, this had nothing to do with the God of the Bible - in which he did not believe At All.
Some think that the Bible was talking about that universal force that you mention.

Of course, the stories are fiction. But the point is that they were referring to something very real. That's another way of viewing the Bible. We don't have to look at it in the fundamentalist way, especially if that was never the intent of the writers. Or even some of the writers. That's something that atheists don't see to acknowledge.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 06:19 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,742,037 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Some think that the Bible was talking about that universal force that you mention.

Of course, the stories are fiction. But the point is that they were referring to something very real. That's another way of viewing the Bible. We don't have to look at it in the fundamentalist way, especially if that was never the intent of the writers. Or even some of the writers. That's something that atheists don't see to acknowledge.
What universal force does the bible talk about that does not also give such a force an entity, a personality, and a bi-polar love/hate relationship with humans?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 06:39 PM
 
8,613 posts, read 11,898,858 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
What universal force does the bible talk about that does not also give such a force an entity, a personality, and a bi-polar love/hate relationship with humans?
Have you ever read the Psalms? Any of the wisdom books? The prophets?

It seems as if the only parts of the Bible that atheists have read are the myths and fables. The books of Moses, etc, especially the latter Moses books. That's all they ever seem to talk about. That's 100% of their focus. In fact, sometimes it seems that only atheists (or extreme Christian fundamentalists) are the only people who are even interested in the books like Joshua and Judges.

But I doubt that most Bible readers even read those as much as the wisdom books or the prophets.

Last edited by OzzyRules; 11-01-2015 at 06:48 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 07:20 PM
 
10,521 posts, read 4,149,112 times
Reputation: 1193
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Have you ever read the Psalms? Any of the wisdom books? The prophets?

It seems as if the only parts of the Bible that atheists have read are the myths and fables. The books of Moses, etc, especially the latter Moses books. That's all they ever seem to talk about. That's 100% of their focus. In fact, sometimes it seems that only atheists (or extreme Christian fundamentalists) are the only people who are even interested in the books like Joshua and Judges.

But I doubt that most Bible readers even read those as much as the wisdom books or the prophets.
amen ozzy. talk about turning me into an ozz fan dude. good show.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 07:55 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,742,037 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Have you ever read the Psalms? Any of the wisdom books? The prophets?

It seems as if the only parts of the Bible that atheists have read are the myths and fables. The books of Moses, etc, especially the latter Moses books. That's all they ever seem to talk about. That's 100% of their focus. In fact, sometimes it seems that only atheists (or extreme Christian fundamentalists) are the only people who are even interested in the books like Joshua and Judges.

But I doubt that most Bible readers even read those as much as the wisdom books or the prophets.
Psalms? Sure. Recall that's where the Jews go all ecstatic recounting on how to bash babies heads against rocks. Great bed time stories for kids

Wisdom books? Sure, have you read Siddhartha? What about any of the Sutras?

If you know your biblical history, tell me which order the Pentateuch was written in.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-01-2015, 08:20 PM
 
8,613 posts, read 11,898,858 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Psalms? Sure. Recall that's where the Jews go all ecstatic recounting on how to bash babies heads against rocks. Great bed time stories for kids

Wisdom books? Sure, have you read Siddhartha? What about any of the Sutras?

If you know your biblical history, tell me which order the Pentateuch was written in.
As far as the order, I don't claim to know. All I will say is that I suspect that the writings are not in the order in which they were written. But there are probably theories against this idea also. Especially if the books of the law were never intended to be taken seriously by the writers.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top