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Old 11-05-2015, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Baldwin County, AL
2,446 posts, read 971,820 times
Reputation: 601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
So do you beleive that this principle can push his religion in the public school?
Of course that is what he believes. The principal is Christian. If this was a principal that was Muslim, or Wiccan, or Hindu, he would be screaming bloody murder about it though. He can't quite grasp the hypocrisy.
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:05 PM
 
34,476 posts, read 8,888,267 times
Reputation: 4788
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored View Post
Of course that is what he believes. The principal is Christian. If this was a principal that was Muslim, or Wiccan, or Hindu, he would be screaming bloody murder about it though. He can't quite grasp the hypocrisy.
He doesn't see it as hypocrisy. he really believes that the US is a Christian nation and country and it is right to push Christian values (as interpreted by the Fundies) onto everyone and nobody else should have the same rights for their religions - why should they? If they want to be Hindus or Buddhists let them go live in in another country.

Close? Cigar?

Oh us? He thinks N Korea would be appropriate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored View Post
I never said "Bible believing Christians". Regular, down home, Christians don't act like this. I am speaking of the nutjobs like the people involved in this story. Just because you believe in God doesn't give you special privileges. I know YOU think it does/should, but it doesn't. The nut jobs are the ones who try to force their religion down everyone's throat.

Point being, I am not referring to your everyday Christian. I am referring to the fundies like the ones in the story that this thread brought to us.
There you go Jeff. This isn't referring to reasonable non pushy Christians but only to the nutjobs. You can either be offended because you thought he was referring to you and he wasn't or you can be offended because you thought he was and he was right. As the Hellthreat apologists say - you have a choice.
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Baldwin County, AL
2,446 posts, read 971,820 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
He doesn't see it as hypocrisy. he really believes that the US is a Christian nation and country and it is right to push Christian values (as interpreted by the Fundies) onto everyone and nobody else should have the same rights for their religions - why should they? If they want to be Hindus or Buddhists let them go live in in another country.

Close? Cigar?

Oh us? He thinks N Korea would be appropriate.




There you go Jeff. This isn't referring to reasonable non pushy Christians but only to the nutjobs. You can either be offended because you thought he was referring to you and he wasn't or you can be offended because you thought he was and he was right. As the Hellthreat apologists say - you have a choice.
Yes, why should everyone be on equal footing? I mean come on, on Christians matter in the good ole USofA right? I will fight until the day I die to keep people like Jeff from denying rights to others, and using a PUBLIC place (Like a school) to spread their religious beliefs, hatred, and bigotry.

I am most definitely not talking about reasonable Christians. I work with many of them, and have great relationships with them all. You know why? They don't preach to everyone and push their beliefs on people. They also don't spread hatred around, and the majority of them are happy to have our gay brothers and sisters come closer to equal footing. If Jeff was offended, then he must indeed be in the other group....
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,562,897 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
If God is in this for victory then the opposition will fail and be gone , and masses of people in that area will be converted to Jesus Christ and the government would not be able to stop it ................. But if there is lack in intersession to God and divisions against people which gives the devil authority then it will be short lived
If god were in anything for victory, outcomes would not depend on believers to intercede / not fight with each other.

In your system of thinking about things, god gets the credit for victories and his followers take the blame for failures. But in practice what it amounts to is god never does anything and it's never his fault. There comes a time when making excuses for god not showing up gets old. It's one of the reasons I left the faith.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:38 PM
 
Location: minnesota
5,254 posts, read 1,676,306 times
Reputation: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Referring to Bible believing Christians as nutjobs shows me that you can't respect other people's beliefs either. It's a two way street, you know.
Why would respecting a belief be a goal? Respect a person, respect their right to believe but respecting the actual belief...no way. Many beliefs have become extinct for good reason.
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Old 11-08-2015, 06:21 AM
 
34,476 posts, read 8,888,267 times
Reputation: 4788
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored View Post
Yes, why should everyone be on equal footing? I mean come on, on Christians matter in the good ole USofA right? I will fight until the day I die to keep people like Jeff from denying rights to others, and using a PUBLIC place (Like a school) to spread their religious beliefs, hatred, and bigotry.

I am most definitely not talking about reasonable Christians. I work with many of them, and have great relationships with them all. You know why? They don't preach to everyone and push their beliefs on people. They also don't spread hatred around, and the majority of them are happy to have our gay brothers and sisters come closer to equal footing. If Jeff was offended, then he must indeed be in the other group....
Yes. That is often overlooked in the battle to push religion out of a position of social influence. It isn't about banning religion or making it illegal but removing any one religion from a position of special social influence or privilege in society.

So, while it is fundamentalist religion that is the immediate target, even reasonable Christians are going to have to be on notice that Christianity itself has to get back into its cage, in due course.

That is, of course if the move to irreligion is really going on. The next survey should tell us.
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Old 11-08-2015, 08:34 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,562 posts, read 3,133,504 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Yes. That is often overlooked in the battle to push religion out of a position of social influence. It isn't about banning religion or making it illegal but removing any one religion from a position of special social influence or privilege in society.
Which is why I assert that there's no such thing as militant or fundamentalist atheism.

Atheism is an almost completely defensive position -- it is not a diametrically opposed (to religion) paradigm that is pushing for a no-religion world. Atheists, by and large, are merely defending secularism where secularism has a RIGHT to exist.

For instance, getting teacher-led, government-sanctioned group prayer removed from public schools was not an attack on Christianity. Rather, it was defending the right of children -- who must attend school by law and are a captive audience -- to not be indoctrinated into deity-worship of any kind. And this is mandated by the U.S. Constitution. Fundamentalist atheism would be fighting to take prayer out of churches and religious schools -- NOT simply trying to remove forced prayer where it never should have been in the first place.

The gay marriage issue is another example. In addition to the human rights aspect, atheists were defending against the undue influence of religion on local and state governments. Since couples can get legally married without ever stepping foot inside of a church or ever receiving the blessing of a priest, marriage is not a strictly religious contract. To ban gay marriage mostly because the Bible condemns it would be allowing conservative religion to dictate governmental policy. Fundamentalist atheism would amount to atheists demanding that churches be forced to officiate over and bless gay marriages.

Or how about when atheists fight against Christians who try to get creationism taught in public school science classes? Is that an attack on Christianity? Of course not. It is defending the ability for science to remain science -- and not allow faith and science to become so closely intertwined that telling them apart might become difficult for future generations. Fundamentalist atheism would be trying to force churches to teach evolution and the Big Bang in Sunday school.

Even the most militant atheists -- and I'm sure many here count me as one of them -- are in the business of containing religion, NOT banning it or forcing it to espouse atheistic or secular values. Nor do atheists interfere with religion's freedom of speech to preach whatever it wants within its churches and religious schools -- no matter how stupid, inflammatory, morally depraved, or just plain wrong it happens to be.

We try to strike a balance between freedom OF and freedom FROM religion.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:00 AM
 
7,684 posts, read 3,843,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Which is why I assert that there's no such thing as militant or fundamentalist atheism.

Atheism is an almost completely defensive position -- it is not a diametrically opposed (to religion) paradigm that is pushing for a no-religion world. Atheists, by and large, are merely defending secularism where secularism has a RIGHT to exist.

For instance, getting teacher-led, government-sanctioned group prayer removed from public schools was not an attack on Christianity. Rather, it was defending the right of children -- who must attend school by law and are a captive audience -- to not be indoctrinated into deity-worship of any kind. And this is mandated by the U.S. Constitution. Fundamentalist atheism would be fighting to take prayer out of churches and religious schools -- NOT simply trying to remove forced prayer where it never should have been in the first place.

The gay marriage issue is another example. In addition to the human rights aspect, atheists were defending against the undue influence of religion on local and state governments. Since couples can get legally married without ever stepping foot inside of a church or ever receiving the blessing of a priest, marriage is not a strictly religious contract. To ban gay marriage mostly because the Bible condemns it would be allowing conservative religion to dictate governmental policy. Fundamentalist atheism would amount to atheists demanding that churches be forced to officiate over and bless gay marriages.

Or how about when atheists fight against Christians who try to get creationism taught in public school science classes? Is that an attack on Christianity? Of course not. It is defending the ability for science to remain science -- and not allow faith and science to become so closely intertwined that telling them apart might become difficult for future generations. Fundamentalist atheism would be trying to force churches to teach evolution and the Big Bang in Sunday school.

Even the most militant atheists -- and I'm sure many here count me as one of them -- are in the business of containing religion, NOT banning it or forcing it to espouse atheistic or secular values. Nor do atheists interfere with religion's freedom of speech to preach whatever it wants within its churches and religious schools -- no matter how stupid, inflammatory, morally depraved, or just plain wrong it happens to be.

We try to strike a balance between freedom OF and freedom FROM religion.
Great post. ( it wouldn't let me give you rep points again)
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:19 AM
 
10,492 posts, read 4,137,043 times
Reputation: 1192
it nice to warp reality to fit a personal world view. We do need to look at some basic facts. Teenagers fight you when you ask then to pick up their trash or take out their homework too. Teenagers do exactly what adults let them do.
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Old 11-08-2015, 09:30 AM
 
10,492 posts, read 4,137,043 times
Reputation: 1192
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored View Post
Yes, why should everyone be on equal footing? I mean come on, on Christians matter in the good ole USofA right? I will fight until the day I die to keep people like Jeff from denying rights to others, and using a PUBLIC place (Like a school) to spread their religious beliefs, hatred, and bigotry.

I am most definitely not talking about reasonable Christians. I work with many of them, and have great relationships with them all. You know why? They don't preach to everyone and push their beliefs on people. They also don't spread hatred around, and the majority of them are happy to have our gay brothers and sisters come closer to equal footing. If Jeff was offended, then he must indeed be in the other group....
I agree to point. as long as you include everybody.

like what about people that don't want a gay bar? Can they have it? I don't hate gays, I don't want to sit around watching guys that act like a girl and a guy on the dance floor. That's it. It has nothing to do with god for me or that they are "evil".

what about a student that says thank god at the school podium? You will fight that to the death too? or won't you care? Cause I don't care, that isn't teaching a story that doesn't have facts. Baseless stories don't have a place in education. Or any education really. I don't care what the story is.

High school should be a place where everybody feels safe to express themselves with the intention of learning and teaching. It is a sanctuary in and for the community to me, for all people. I will fight to the death to protect that meme. That is the starting "if", not "anti-religion".
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