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Old 11-05-2015, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,920 posts, read 4,969,977 times
Reputation: 5001

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
So you rather spend eternity with the enemy who spends every day making human beings miserable on this earth?
According to the Bible, the Christian God actually has a higher body count than Satan does:

Examples of God personally killing people

Examples of Satan personally killing people

So if you go purely by the numbers, spending eternity with Satan would actually be the lesser of the two evils.

Ultimately, neither creature is real, so it's like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:45 PM
 
1,721 posts, read 954,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
According to the Bible, the Christian God actually has a higher body count than Satan does:

Examples of God personally killing people

Examples of Satan personally killing people

So if you go purely by the numbers, spending eternity with Satan would actually be the lesser of the two evils.

Ultimately, neither creature is real, so it's like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
LOL! That's one of the most effing awesome arguments I've ever read!

So, god, the character, is far worse than satan, the character. To use a human analogy, god can be likened to a genocidal maniac like Hitler, whereas Satan is just an undistinguished murder who's kiled a few persons as authorized by god.

Again, effing brilliant point. Yup, god definitely seems like a much worse a-hole than satan.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:48 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,452,523 times
Reputation: 32248
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
So you rather spend eternity with the enemy who spends every day making human beings miserable on this earth?
Blame Satan. Go ahead. Blame him. It's what fundamentalists do. It's easier to blame Satan for human misery than actually doing something to alleviate it.

Human beings are usually miserable because of the actions of other human beings. But.....go for it, Jeff! You are doing a SWELL job of passing the buck to Satan.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:33 PM
 
10,210 posts, read 10,592,136 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
If the Islamists got that 72 virgins thing right it could be a lot more fun than you think, Freak.

On the other hand maybe it's just one 72-year-old virgin.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,920 posts, read 4,969,977 times
Reputation: 5001
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
If the Islamists got that 72 virgins thing right it could be a lot more fun than you think, Freak.

On the other hand maybe it's just one 72-year-old virgin.


Even 72 virgins would probably get old after the first million years. Probably after the first 1000 years. Even if they stayed young.
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:00 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,077,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
It's then like a party you don't want to end.
It is a nice trick many theists do use to suggest that anyone who does not want eternal life must be "miserable". That way one does not have to debate the point, but merely dismiss any dissent as the ramblings of some miserable curmudgeon. It transfers the lack of argument in support of eternal life into some lack on behalf of anyone who dissents from it. Applied Ad Hominem I would call it.

However out in the world the reality does not match the hypothesis as there is quite a number of people, myself included, who are every bit as thrilled and happy with their lives as anyone else, and they are still horrified by the idea of eternal life. So the overtly dismissive tactic simply does not map onto reality at all.

Funny you mention a party as Christopher Hitchens used an analogy to parties too when describing the concept of an after life that the mono-theisms appear to subscribe to. He said that being alive is like attending the best party ever. And receiving his terminal illness diagnosis is like being tapped on the shoulder and being told you not only have to leave, but the party is going to go on without you.

But the eternal life espoused to him by most mono theists is like being tapped on the shoulder at the party.... being told you can NEVER leave..... and what is more while you are there the host positively INSISTS (in a tone implying threat).... that you have a good time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
That's why I prefer the idea of reincarnation. Our souls are immortal, our bodies are not, and once we manage to remember our incarnations, it's all fun.
Though of course we should avoid the error many make of thinking that because we prefer an idea, the idea is therefore true. There is absolutely no arguments, evidence, data or reasoning on offer, much less so from you, to suggest reincarnation actually occurs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I had an idea for a sci fi novel once set in a time a few hundred years into the era in which practical biological immortality was available to all.
Give the Culture Novels a read by Ian Banks. I think he has pretty much developed most of the ideas you laid out here within them?
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,079 posts, read 8,605,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Give the Culture Novels a read by Ian Banks. I think he has pretty much developed most of the ideas you laid out here within them?
Never heard of him. I will check it out, thanks.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: UK
689 posts, read 367,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post

I have absolutely no wish to be immortal especially if it meant residing with the Biblical deity, ceasing to be at death is a much better option.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:53 AM
 
7,811 posts, read 5,077,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Never heard of him. I will check it out, thanks.
He writes fiction and science fiction. With one he writes under "Ian Banks" and with the other "Ian M. Banks". Not sure which is which and I hate running to google every time I can not remember something so you will have to find out yourself. I am 80% sure the "M" goes with the SF books.

Where my memory is intact I think is that the first book in the series is called "Consider Phlebas". Members of the population of "The Culture" are so genetically enhanced that they are essentially immortal, or long lived enough to be considered functionally so. They have the ability to control pretty much everything in their own bodies... heart rate.... hormone secretion rates.... everything..... including artificial hormones..... and can switch off their pain receptors or even.... given a period of time.... change gender.

One of the books in the series called Surface Detail explores the concept of uploading people into artificial Hells as punishments. Meaning not only is their real life functionally immortal but they can program the system Hell so that the subjective experience of people uploaded into it is also functionally infinite. And the whole book explores the ethical argument between two factions on whether such environments should be allowed to be run.
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,079 posts, read 8,605,902 times
Reputation: 6009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
He writes fiction and science fiction. With one he writes under "Ian Banks" and with the other "Ian M. Banks". Not sure which is which and I hate running to google every time I can not remember something so you will have to find out yourself. I am 80% sure the "M" goes with the SF books.

Where my memory is intact I think is that the first book in the series is called "Consider Phlebas". Members of the population of "The Culture" are so genetically enhanced that they are essentially immortal, or long lived enough to be considered functionally so. They have the ability to control pretty much everything in their own bodies... heart rate.... hormone secretion rates.... everything..... including artificial hormones..... and can switch off their pain receptors or even.... given a period of time.... change gender.

One of the books in the series called Surface Detail explores the concept of uploading people into artificial Hells as punishments. Meaning not only is their real life functionally immortal but they can program the system Hell so that the subjective experience of people uploaded into it is also functionally infinite. And the whole book explores the ethical argument between two factions on whether such environments should be allowed to be run.
I found the books by Googling Ian Banks culture novels. I will be on a plane for a few hours tomorrow so I will have a chance to read the first one via the Kindle app.
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