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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,920,960 times
Reputation: 4561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
So now you're whining that the Bible doesn't endorse your choice of religions? Isn't that the point we're getting at? First you complain that it supposedly endorses a religion....when I say it doesn't, you then complain that it doesn't endorse the ones you want?
And I've pointed out that allowing a Bible in a hotel room that is not paid for by taxpayers does not endorse any particular religion any more than the tv in the hotel room that allows you to watch religious broadcasting endorses a religion.
Honestly...again, I ask...why not just live an let live? Why must you continue to play the victim?
You truly do seem to have a sense of humor at times Vizio . Or at least you're funny. You see something being said a few times like 'playing the victim', and all of a sudden you want to make it your phrase. Do you any idea how transparent you are to us to watch you play your little game?
And you do like twisting words. Your question was which religion did the New Testament that the Gideons place endorse. The answer was always self evident, but you had to play the game with it as this you're actually utilizing some intellectual abilities.
Plain and simple, the university understood that what they were doing was contrary to the application of the separation of church and state as outlined in the Constitution and subsequent SCOTUS rulings.
Wow, you really like to tell other people what they think so that you can define the terms of the argument and determine whether the other person has made any valid arguments, huh?
No. I would prefer you be honest with yourself and with us about how things are. I would also prefer you argue with me only about that which I actually posted rather than trying to argue with me against things I haven't said, just so you could have something to say to make it seem to yourself like you're actually holding your own in the discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye state your name
First of all, let me assure you that I deny nothing and have no feelings of foolishness over what I have stated.
That's so categorical and yet completely devoid of specifics that it seems that you just posted it to try to deflect away from the substantive comments I've made, which I can only assume you're doing because you have no legitimate response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye state your name
I have not posted anything that is untruthful
You posted false information and then several times now have refused to acknowledge the correction even though the evidence was presented directly to you. You have refused to even pretend to seek to obtain any form of defense for the falsehood you posted, and instead simply continue on as if the people you're talking with didn't say what they said, didn't provide you what they provided you. No one gets a pass for that kind of intellectual dishonesty. It isn't even one of the unjust privileges Christians enjoy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye state your name
and your failure to prove otherwise
Another falsehood. I have provided evidence of your prevarication. Twice. And you have been told the means by which you can recover some sense of integrity about this matter, and you've demurred.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye state your name
simply shows that the only foolishness in this area is coming from your direction.
I hope you realize that such self-ratifying nonsense isn't fooling anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye state your name
Although, based on some of your statements, one could infer a feeble mind, I don't need to employ falsehoods to make my points.
What's next? You're going to exclaim that my mother wore Army boots? Where do you think we are? In an elementary school playground? Stop with the childish nonsense. If you cannot maturely respond to the substantive comments directed toward you then admit that and move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye state your name
Christian Privilege is nothing more than a buzzword made up by a newly invented victim class.
It is no surprise that Dominionists would deny that they're privileged, just like Whites try to deny White Privilege, just like men try to deny male privilege. It's ridiculous the lengths those in the majority will go to deceive themselves into thinking that they're not beneficiaries of an unjust system.
That is a valid point. It is the only one I have seen your side make, but it is a valid point.
I have made that point several times. I see the argument that Gideons have to be removed because it isn't fair and I have pointed out that there has been no proof that any other religious organization has sought and been denied the same permissions. Just because the Gideons have been proactive in providing this program should not automatically mean that Christianity is being given preferential treatment.
If other religions do not have volunteer organizations that have undertaken this type of program, it seems anathema to the intent of the first amendment to bar them from continuing it because no other religion is interested in distributing their holy texts in a similar manner.
But we're off-topic here. Claiming the bible is not harmful while porn is harmful, even if true, is irrelevant to whether the state should be sponsoring religion by providing bibles on government property.
It ends either when no particular belief is being promulgated, or none at all are.
The hotel does not control cable TV content, it simply provides a device to watch it on. In principle, but for supply / demand / economic issues, there is no reason there couldn't be, e.g., a muslim, pagan or atheist channel on there -- so there is no promotion of one belief over another.
The hotel DOES control who it allows to put what books into its rooms.
Personally I think the most elegant solution to this whole issue is to maintain a selection of holy books which any guest can request or pick up from the front desk. This is all a tempest in a teapot anyway; it's been a long time since I've read a paper book. I could have the Bible, Qur'an, and the Bhagavad Gita on my Kindle and via cloud storage most anything else I would want / need to read. The Gideon model is outmoded and in ten year's time won't be reaching anyone to speak of anyway.
Then you are putting the onus on the establishment to create and maintain a religious library as a solution to the "non-problem" of the Gideons voluntarily and financially assuming the responsibility to purchase and distribute bibles themselves.
Hotels rarely maintain a lending library in the first place, but you advocate that they set aside space and incur costs to purchase and maintain a library of religious texts, which then must be overseen by personnel to assist with the checking in/out process to make sure the texts are returned in good condition, etc., etc., then there is the costs related to charging for holy texts that are lost, taken or vandalized, etc., when the current program is not creating harm to anyone but the victim class of Atheists that find the bible offends their delicate senses.
You can only reach that conclusion on YOUR assumption that all other religious texts have been denied placement in the hotels. Until you can affirmatively prove that other religious organizations have sought to place their religious texts at the same locations and have been met with denial, do you have a basis for the argument that the "STATE" is promoting one religion above others. Although that is still a false argument, at least the facts would support your conclusion.
The state is paying for employees to place Bibles. The state is not paying for employees to place other religious texts.
Actually, judicial precedent related to the First Amendment (et. al.) takes precedence. The US Constitution says so.
The government expends taxpayer money in support of an activity that benefits your religion. I recognize how hard it is for those who have lived their life as a member of the majority to be honest, even with just themselves, and admit their privilege. It's a shame, though, that you spend so much energy railing against the reality.
As a public service, here are some links you should read to help you develop sensitivity to your Christian privilege, which hopefully will develop into moral standing to admit and accept that you benefit from unjust privilege and should be supportive of efforts to mitigate unjust privilege wherever it manifests.
No particular belief is being promulgated. Do you not realize that? There are a lot of different religions that use the Bible. And if other religions want to put their texts in the room, I'm sure it would be allowed. Maybe you ought to go carry the banner to try to motivate the Muslims to put Korans in the room?
Again...I ask: Why the continued attempt at making your side out to be a bunch of victims? So a Bible is put in a hotel room....so what? Get on with life and worry about things that really matter.
So now a Bible won't be. So what? Get on with life and worry about things that really matter.
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