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Old 12-30-2015, 03:49 PM
 
19,704 posts, read 10,038,494 times
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Jane Fonda is a traitor to the American people. I don't know how she can be considered a Christian.
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Old 12-30-2015, 03:59 PM
 
9,951 posts, read 4,914,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Jane Fonda is a traitor to the American people. I don't know how she can be considered a Christian.
The apostle Paul murdered Christians before he converted.

Jesus was arrested for being a traitor besides sedition and injured majesty.

Also, we must remember Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come ' in Jesus' name ' but prove false.

Jesus and his 1st-century followers were always neutral in the affairs of the world.
They did Not even get involved in the issues of the day between the Jews and the Romans.
Jesus gave Matthew 26:52 and Revelation 13:10 to ALL of his followers to be politically neutral no matter where they live.
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:11 PM
 
9,951 posts, read 4,914,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
First, give irrefutable evidence that bible jesus even existed. Then we can start to consider what he is alleged to have said.
Didn't Josephus, Pliny the Younger ( who wrote to Emperor Trajan in reference to Christians ) and Tacitus refer to Jesus and his followers ?______

Who in the 1st century wrote that what the gospel writers wrote did Not happen ?
Doesn't Roman history show they wanted to get rid of Jesus' followers ?______
How could a fictional character have such a large following as to risk their very lives as the early Christians did ?
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,802 posts, read 13,347,556 times
Reputation: 9809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Jane Fonda is a traitor to the American people. I don't know how she can be considered a Christian.
Traitors should go to hell, right? Have you identified the unpardonable sin or something?
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:26 PM
 
1,490 posts, read 1,209,885 times
Reputation: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Jane Fonda is a traitor to the American people. I don't know how she can be considered a Christian.
Apparently all you have to do is accept Christ.

At least that's what the guy holding the sign on my way to work thinks. He seems pretty convinced so it must be true.
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Old 12-30-2015, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,802 posts, read 13,347,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Didn't Josephus, Pliny the Younger ( who wrote to Emperor Trajan in reference to Christians ) and Tacitus refer to Jesus and his followers ?______
Josephus did not reference Jesus. The passage you have in mind has been widely debunked inside and outside Christianity as a "pious fraud" that was inserted by a misguided believing scribe at some point.

Pliny and Tacitus refer to Christians and we atheists never have asserted that Christians don't exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Who in the 1st century wrote that what the gospel writers wrote did Not happen ?
Not sure I'm following the question. If you're asking who in the 1st century wrote in opposition to Christianity, the answer is no one wrote anything for or against it in the 1st century. Even writing in opposition to it would be evidence in your favor, so I don't know why you're even bringing it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Doesn't Roman history show they wanted to get rid of Jesus' followers ?______
I don't know that they had an extermination effort, they definitely persecuted them, but so what? All that proves is that the Romans thought Christianity seditious in some way.

Rome was generally tolerant of religion so long as it didn't involve human sacrifice or represent a perceived political threat. On this basis, followers of Dionysius, Pagans and Druids were persecuted at times. Judaism was prohibited in the Empire because of its open opposition to Roman rule. So the persecution of Christians (prior to taking it as the official religion of the Empire) was hardly unique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
How could a fictional character have such a large following as to risk their very lives as the early Christians did ?
How did hundreds of people voluntarily poison themselves to death at Jonestown? People die for stupid reasons all the time.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,678,541 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Didn't Josephus, Pliny the Younger ( who wrote to Emperor Trajan in reference to Christians ) and Tacitus refer to Jesus and his followers ?______

Who in the 1st century wrote that what the gospel writers wrote did Not happen ?
Doesn't Roman history show they wanted to get rid of Jesus' followers ?______
How could a fictional character have such a large following as to risk their very lives as the early Christians did ?
No it does not. It shows that they expected christians to follow Roman laws--and christians refused. They were punished as lawbreakers, not christians. But they were seen as being fairly obstinate--just like many are today--particularly of the fundamentalist persuasion.

Quote:
Because the Roman gods were actually a part of the state religion, and it was thought that they must be worshipped regularly in order for the Romans to have victory in war and prosperity at home, it was considered a roman's patriotic duty to sacrifice regularly to Jupiter, Mars, Juno, Vesta, and leave offerings out for the household gods, the Lares and Penates. The Christians, on the other hand, believed in one God and worship Him in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Making sacrifice to Jupiter or Poseidon was (and still is) abhorrent to a Christian. Because the Romans believed that the favor of the gods was necessary to the security of the state, the Christians were believed to be not only impious and anti-religious but unpatriotic as well. In addition, many Christians refused to serve in the army because they might have to kill other human beings and thus violate the commandments of Christ. Similarly, some Christians refused to hold government posts, engage in commerce, or loan money because they saw these activities as lending approval to a corrupt earthly system. They believed that the only true empire was in heaven.
The Early Christians - Throwing Christians to the Lions: Fact and Legend

It should be fair warning to all that when any kind of theism (or pantheism) comes to dominate political life--someone sooner or later will be thrown to the lions. One would think that would be meaningful to christians. Sadly, it rarely is.
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
10,939 posts, read 5,909,500 times
Reputation: 5634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
And you expect that to be a better answer than Jesus gave?
You bet! Well, actually, I don't really know what Jesus said and neither do you!

Considering that reports of what Jesus said only began to be written down some forty years after the fact (or so we are led to believe). That would make the authors some sixty or more years old with some degree of memory degredation. Would you take my my testimony of what happened forty years ago when I was in my twenties as being accurate?

Here's an example. The sermon on the mount in which several thousand people were fed with five fishes and two loaves of bread? Firstly, how would thousands of people be able to hear his preaching? Secondly, how would thousands of people living in that era get themselves out on a mount without food for the day? That kind of reporting on what Jesus said leaves one wondering about the accuracy of what he said, let alone how what he said answers the OP's question. I at least answered the OP's question. So yes, I expect that to be a better answer than Jesus gave. What answer did he give anyway?

Last edited by 303Guy; 12-30-2015 at 11:11 PM..
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Old 12-31-2015, 04:50 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,673,481 times
Reputation: 8793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
Jane Fonda is a traitor to the American people. I don't know how she can be considered a Christian.
Without saying anything about Fonda or Christianity, that statement you posted is utterly senseless.
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:06 AM
 
Location: UK
67 posts, read 46,137 times
Reputation: 25
Some Christians, usually of the more extremist 'you much be 'saved' or else' dogma, scream persecution when their unpleasant version of the faith is challenged. This is NOT persecution and detracts from those who are genuinely persecuted for their faith.
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