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The point is that I feel it necessary to tell an Atheist who comes up to me and tells me "God does not exist" that he/she needs to prove their point. It is good for them. They need to see they can't just go around saying that. It has nothing to do with God needing a "Belief enforcement patrol." Maybe you are different. Maybe you would never request proof. Good for you if that is how you would react. We are all unique in our own ways.
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you are not from the US. Here we have a thing called Free Speech and a person can basically say anything they want without being required to prove it to you. Sure if they libel you or someone else, they can be sued in court and required to prove the truth of their statement, but stating that God does not exist puts no more onus on them to prove His lack of existence than you are required to prove He does exist just because you say so.
I don't really see my view as being different. I just don't understand that if you believe in God, then what does it matter if anyone else does or does not and what does it matter whether or not they state that?
I'm sorry, I didn't realize you are not from the US. Here we have a thing called Free Speech and a person can basically say anything they want without being required to prove it to you. Sure if they libel you or someone else, they can be sued in court and required to prove the truth of their statement, but stating that God does not exist puts no more onus on them to prove His lack of existence than you are required to prove He does exist just because you say so.
I don't really see my view as being different. I just don't understand that if you believe in God, then what does it matter if anyone else does or does not and what does it matter whether or not they state that?
I am from the United States of God Bless America. LOL. And yes, people are free to speak their mind. And I have that equal freedom as well. So if they want to get in my face and tell me God does not exist, well, the road goes both ways. I too am allowed to use my freedom of speech and tell them to prove He does not exist.
Why does it matter if I ask for proof? I think it is helpful to the Atheist to ask for proof. If I were to go up to an Atheist and say "God exists!" I'm sure he would ask for proof.
Woah, where in the Scriptures did God tell the Israelites to sacrifice their babies?
Where in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old?
Where in the Bible does it say "evolution is false?
That is very poorly worded sentence if it is one at all.
Seeing how you managed to get the first points wrong, it doesn't surprise me you would think that and use a slippery slope fallacy to get your point across on the last point, to wit, we are all doomed if we continue to allow religious beliefs to prevent science!
I don't wanna sound like an *******, but really? Are you kidding me?
Let's start from the beginning...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Woah, where in the Scriptures did God tell the Israelites to sacrifice their babies?
First of all, I was being facetious. Though God really does command to murder children at several points and commands unquestioning faith. Thus if a believer heard voices in his head telling him to murder people, he may be very well inclined to do it instead of seek help. This has happened.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16) "After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here am I.” He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:1) "Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel din opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and edevote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, fbut kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”" (1 Samuel 15:2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Where in the Bible does it say the earth is 6000 years old?
Where in the Bible does it say "evolution is false?"
Please review Genesis. Notice where sin and death come from. Notice how humans were made. The Bible provides a theory for these things. This theory doesn't hold a lot of merit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
That is very poorly worded sentence if it is one at all.
Seeing how you managed to get the first points wrong, it doesn't surprise me you would think that and use a slippery slope fallacy to get your point across on the last point, to wit, we are all doomed if we continue to allow religious beliefs to prevent science!
Hmm...
About your slippery slope fallacy, 1/3 of Americans believe that Evolution simply is false and another 24% think God guided evolution.
The point of this is that there are literally people walking around protesting freedom of speech and gene manipulation in the name of God. These people are largely misguided and are an inhibiting force for Science.
And you have atheists proselytizing to you that god does not exist on a regular basis?
It's clear you are conflating 2 distinct concepts. The atheist belief position of "I don't believe gods exist" and your personal strawman "god does not exist" which serves your own convenience.
What is less clear is whether you have the capability to grasp that distinction or are simply dishonest.
You are so funny.
Atheism is the belief that God does not exist.
If an Atheist tells me "God does not exist" then he is telling me his belief that God does not exist.
What is less clear is whether you have the capability to grasp the similarity or are simply dishonest.
(1) Eusebius is great at dismissing compelling evidence as no proof on the basis of his rejection on the basis of far less likely explanations, wrong and false evidence and indeed on pure flat assertions of Faith -belief.
(2) He is just as good at putting out unsupported statements of faith -belief and asserting that they must be taken as true fact unless we can disprove them.
It is impossible to prove anything to someone who does (1)
(3) he then accuses the other side of doing what he does himself.
(4) he is fooling nobody but himself, so it really doesn't matter. what matter is that we see the best arguments Theism can present and great posters for Godfaith like Mystic, Eusebius and Vizio and Jeffbase do that excellently well. They are, collectively, worth a couple of regiments to us.
All true. And can be evidenced much better than his god-claims and now even his atheist-claims.
Thus if a believer heard voices in his head telling him to murder people, he may be very well inclined to do it instead of seek help. This has happened.
I agree.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16) "After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here am I.” He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:1) "Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel din opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and edevote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, fbut kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”" (1 Samuel 15:2)[/quote]
Again, this might be helpful: Why did God command the extermination / genocide of the Canaanites, women and children included?
The Bible does not say the earth is 6000 years old. It could be millions or billions of years old. I could explain why, but I don't have all the time in the world.
Quote:
Please review Genesis. Notice where sin and death come from. Notice how humans were made. The Bible provides a theory for these things. This theory doesn't hold a lot of merit.
I'm sure you will prove your statement. I'll be waiting.
No, there is no difference between rejecting the belief in God and believing there is no God.
I certainly believe you are correct that an Atheist would waffle if I confronted them with the definition which describes them. So you are saying by what you stated concerning what Christians believe that there are many different sects of Atheism as well? Do some sects of Atheism believe there is no God and some believe in a god but He is 1/4 inch tall?
Having faith in something you can't prove is exactly what Christians do. You have faith there is no God. We have faith there is a God.
I didn't go by what other religious people tell me about non-religious people. So why bring that up as if that is what I was doing? I merely went to the dictionary. I thought dictionaries were supposed to be neutral in their definitions. I don't think they purposely make improper definitions to get at Atheist or non-religious groups.
No thanks. This thread is good enough. The dictionary is also good enough to define Atheism as well. Just don't shoot the messenger.
It is interesting though how the OP brought up this issue that when some are confronted, they do all sorts of interesting things.
Ah missed this gem....
So you think this is an original concept and a gotcha proposition (e.g. fabrication). Read this one if you are willing to see your argument framed better than you have, and summarily debunked.
I could say the same about you but won't lower myself to your level.
That level has a name. It's called reality.
You can try it out and I promise you can go back if seems too scary.
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what matter is that we see the best arguments Theism can present and great posters for Godfaith like Mystic, Eusebius and Vizio and Jeffbase do that excellently well. They are, collectively, worth a couple of regiments to us.