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When I am tempted to cling to something I have traditionally chased after, I always resort then to what I have come to call the Two Magic Words ... not printable here, but the first word starts with an F and the second word is "it".
I believe that Robin Williams once spoke of a medication that starts with an F.
There is a lot wrong with your views on the role of the brain and its interpretation role with respect to stimuli. But it this one common and unjustified conclusion in the bold that most annoys those of us who have experienced God in altered states achieved through meditation (NOT the ones using drugs).
It is important to acknowledge the reality that everything that exists is simply vibrational field phenomena manifesting in various forms within the unified field.
But more to the point, EVERYTHING we experience is just sensations INTERPRETED by our brain.
The fact that there exists a brain state that is interpreted as the presence of God (however it is achieved) should suggest that there exists a God to sense.
The drugged states clearly produce brain interpretations that are unreliable because the drugs interfere with rational thought and evaluation.
But the God helmet evidences that the brain has the ability to sense "fields" otherwise not detectable through our normal senses. Clearly the brain can sense things beyond our normal sensory system. Given that this ability of the brain exists and our rational ability is not impaired by wearing the helmet, dismissing its interpretations as dysfunction is unjustified. Similarly, meditators who achieve the deeper states remain rational and are able to use this ability of the brain to sense the consciousness field that IS interpreted by the brain as God.
IOW, if you are going to accept unimpaired brain interpretations of our sensory inputs, you cannot dismiss the unimpaired brain interpretations of otherwise undetectable field phenomena.
Note I am aware of meditative states that enable one to sense 'God' illusorily. This is covered in point 'd' in my list.
d. Other objective reasons that led one to an altered states to experience God.
Note the Buddhists [personally I believe its range of spirituality is the most extensive] are also into very sophisticated meditation techniques which are accompanied with altered states of consciousness BUT Buddhists do not sense [see, know, conscious] there is a GOD.
The Buddhists [with higher philosophy] philosophize, reflect and rationalize on their meditative experiences to understand the reality of the basis [then apply it to the practical] and they do not conclude any GOD exists.
The Hindus [theistic Vedanta] conclude the existence of Brahman [i.e. GOD] via cosmic, unity, God consciousness via their meditative experiences of oneness.
There are a minority of atheistic Vedanta who do not reify their experience of oneness as God. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_neti https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samkhya
However while the Buddhists rationalize away their experience of oneness as 'nothing_ness' the Vedantist rationalize their experience of oneness and reify it as 'something-ness' as the most refined element, i.e. Brahman or God.
Point is whenever there is something_ness it always invoke the other-ness and thus dualism and its various loads of issues, i.e. psychological, metaphysical, epistemological, etc.
Btw, I have no issue with any one wanting to reify their altered states of consciousness to "something_ness" at the most refined level, i.e. God.
It is just that I am offering another philosophical perspective to the issue which I think is most optimal.
Quote:
The fact that there exists a brain state that is interpreted as the presence of God (however it is achieved) should suggest that there exists a God to sense.
Why must such experience be as God-given where God has certain transcendental qualities which can never be proven at all.
The fact that there exists a brain state that can be more easily explained [Occam's] on the basis of the listing of objective reasons I have listed above is a more tenable hypothesis.
More so, such a hypothesis can be tested and repeated amongst a large sample of subjects who report similar experiences and can be established as a theory.
Note the work of Andrew Newberg, Andrew Newberg
and many others.
He [Newberg] is a pioneer in the neurological study of religious and spiritual experiences, a field known as “neurotheology.”
His research includes taking brain scans of people in prayer, meditation, rituals, and trance states, in an attempt to better understand the nature of religious and spiritual practices and attitudes.
Quote:
The drugged states clearly produce brain interpretations that are unreliable because the drugs interfere with rational thought and evaluation.
There are many research of the experiences of drugged [hallucinogens, etc.] altered states of consciousness which are experienced as divine without any aberrations of the rational faculties. In fact many reported their senses, faculties of rationality and creativity are heightened as compared to normal states. Note the reputable [has to be rational, sane, wise, etc.] shamans are the ones who take natural hallucinogens.
On the other side, there are bad trips.
The outcome of hallucinogens [good or bad trips] depend on many factors, i.e. the person current psychological states, the person's background, types of drugs, doses of drugs, etc.
The God helmet do not sense but use magnetic impulses to trigger specific neural locations [Temporal Lobe] that are responsible for the spiritual [God based] altered states of consciousness. When triggered it is the brain that sense those impulses. This is the same with hallucinogens and other neurotransmitters that trigger the same location of the brain to produce similar altered states of consciousness.
One interesting expectation is the advancement of the Connectome Project to map the neural circuits of the brain [as much as possible, since 100% is quite impossible]. http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/
Then we will be able to identify the specific neural circuits that are responsible for the God-related altered states of consciousness and trigger them on demand and eliminate its mystical elements once and for all.
Last edited by Continuum; 01-03-2016 at 11:52 PM..
I agree with you on Brandy though. It's only good for 15 minutes but it's 15 minutes
of feeling like all's right with the world...
I have come to call the Two Magic Words ... not printable here, but the first word
starts with an F and the second word is "it".
I never timed a Brandy buzz...I will check it out!
I firmly support the Eff-it attitude!
why would you be totally against organized religion?
I mean around here they run local youth soccer clubs, hand out food, and stuff like that.
I rather they do it then lady liberal take my money and do stupid things with it.
I understand over-organized, that being too big, but any endeavor of man needs organization.
We are social animals. so what do you really mean?
No group interaction to share a common belief?
I have talked about the whys so many many times for years...I'm tired of it, it gets old...no offense.
As a social group organizing soccer clubs and giving to charity, churches are great!
I agree. I'll leave it at that.
Faith is nice. Belief is nice. But, knowing and having seen, well, that tops it all, imo.
If I have not actually gone to a dentist, how can I refer him to you?
Because of hearsay? Because I read an article?
Because he gives discounts if you bring in a coupon?
I can tell, can't you...when a person is parroting words?
Can't you tell when a person, even with a good heart is saying things full of fear?
And that he really has not experienced what he is saying himself?
...Desperately wanting others to agree like a youth just starting out in life discovering himself?
Just saying...until this Creator...this Superior Being ...this Spirit...reveals
Itself to you ... I just can't listen.
Because it is pure speculation, hope, imagination, guessing and conceptualization and parroting.
I understand that a person can read a sentence in any scripture and get VERY moved...why?
Because it is the truth.
An example: When one randomly reads- And we know that in all things God works
for the good of those that love Him...Rom 8:28
They can be so moved and want to shout this to people...in their joy.
But, how do they know this is true? It moves their soul and it feels wonderful...but, have
they personally been revealed this?
This is where the rubber hits the pavement, to me.
Do they live this each second?
Do they trust this and never have 1 second of worry or doubt...ever again?
Bec lemme tell ya..one who really has been shown this..lives not as the
regular human any longer.
They have been uplifted...like thru a cloud...now they truly know.
Hmm. Much as you are one of my favorite posters Miss Hepburn, with your lovely positivity, this post doesn't actually tell me anything.
Knowing and having seen....what exactly? It's all extremely vague and woolly.
Most of us have positive ('spiritual' if you like), experiences. Even we atheists do. (All the more when helped along by a shot of brandy, too much coffee or lack of sleep.)
Most of us have had experiences of awe and wonder when the universe seems overpowering or we are overcome with joy.
How is this a revelation of god to you but not to me?
How do you know it's not just your imagination that sets your experiences apart?
I understand that a person can read a sentence in any scripture and get VERY moved...why?
Because it is the truth.
How about these:
"All that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you." Leviticus 9:10
I like fish, and it's healthier than beef, so that's a non-starter for me.
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)
So slavery is 'moving'? It might be, but this doesn't move me in a good way.
Ultimately, this is the problem when people defend scripture: They only focus on the good or benign aspects, while ignore the heinous and silly aspects (prohibiting clothing made of two different fibers, no mixed seeds or animals in the same field, and numerous others).
Some of it is moving, while much is heinous and indefensible, and others aspects are antiquated and ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7
The brain creates nothing. It's a receiver.
It's both a receiver and creator in the sense that it's stimulated by nerves (reception), but then it responds by creating experience. Any an all evidence indicates that all experience is fundamentally neurological. Yes, the brain functions largely as a receiver, but it's also the fundamental basis of everything we experience.
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