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God can not lie. God can not commit sin. God can not break his Covenant. So you're wrong, there are things God can not do. Again, unless you have supreme knowledge of the universe and know all thing then you don't have a right to judge God without all the facts. God created you so why would you have a better sense of morality than God? That's like saying a bucket of water drank from the well is more pure than the water in the well.
Actually, you're wrong. God CAN do all sorts of despicable things and is allowed to whereas we're not, because it's God.
It's all right there in your Bible.
"Unless you have supreme knowledge of the universe and know all thing (sic) then you don't have a right to judge God without the facts." Hell yes I do. I have a right to judge anyone harming, or allowing harm, and DEFINITELY having CREATED harm ("I create evil...")...even "without all the facts," whatever that means (seems a blurry, slippery and unsupported statement to me, frankly).
"That's like saying a bucket of water drank (sic) from the well is more pure than the water in the well."
No it isn't. LOL.
Although actually, it IS possible for a bucket to be more pure than the water it's dipping into. Of course it is. A washed bucket, muddy water = the bucket is purer. (???? ?????)
No I'm saying you don't know if your idea of a personal solution is void of even more problems or outcomes. You can't even explain to me how God could force humans to only do good things without violating free will. Controlling their brains? That's not free will.
Bottom line is God is offering man the opportunity for eternal life even though we have done rotten things in this life. That's a great deal. That's a loving God. I'll gladly take an infinite period of living in joy, peace and righteous in exchange for temporary pain.
(the underlined) I have.
And I'm just a duh human.
Took like two seconds out to envision an outline; add one God who can "literally do anything" and voila.
I'm sorry you didn't like my answer but yes, we CAN explain how God could have only good things happen (BTW, WITH choice and WITHOUT "force").
YOU still haven't explained how being in heaven where there apparently ISN'T free will (people can ONLY do good) isn't forcing and brain control but it would be forcing and brain control on earth...?
It really is. It pretty much implies that this god cares more about the bad people of the world (the murderers abusers etc.) than the good. The funniest part of it all: we are expected to worship this god even when he lets bad people do those things to us.
Yes indeed!
What I got in Sunday school ... was simply a firm conviction that the Christian faith was full of palpable absurdities, and the Christian God preposterous.... The act of worship, as carried on by Christians, seems to me to be debasing rather than ennobling. It involves grovelling before a being who, if he really exists, deserves to be denounced instead of respected.
— H L Mencken
Yes it's a long response but there is so much information in God's Word that will answer peoples fears, doubts, questions just have to be willing to delve into it:
Cut for brevity.
Ah...a wall of Bible text as 'evidence'. Well hd, all you have to do now is prove that the Bible is true. Can you do that?
But he did. All the rules and laws of your god laid down in the OT which the Bible says will 'endure for ever' and 'never change', were, according to Christianity changed or abolished when the mythical character JC came along.
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So you're wrong, there are things God can not do.
I don't think you will find many atheist that would disagree with that jeff. It simply shows that theists have, under the weight of logic, reason and common sense, demolished yet another attribute of the Hebrew god of war, Yahweh... that of omnipotence. Bravo old boy. You are doing our work for us.
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Again, unless you have supreme knowledge of the universe and know all thing then you don't have a right to judge God without all the facts.
Unless you have supreme knowledge of the universe and know all thing then You cannot say we are wrong.
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God created you ....
Verifiable evidence for that claim is required.
P.S. The Bible is not verifiable evidence.
God can not lie. God can not commit sin. God can not break his Covenant. So you're wrong, there are things God can not do. Again, unless you have supreme knowledge of the universe and know all thing then you don't have a right to judge God without all the facts. God created you so why would you have a better sense of morality than God? That's like saying a bucket of water drank from the well is more pure than the water in the well.
Yes, we do have the right to judge God but that can certainly stop if our free will is taken away.
Since we are discussing facts and God together, it is a fact that a three year old needed to be raped for the overall good of the human race?
"In Heaven there's no lamb chops, Queen Guineveres for hand jobs,
Marijuana, Kenny Rogers or ecstasy."
To which Galahad replies:
"Angel don't you tempt me, I wish to go to Heaven and not to Hell.
So when stable boys look lonesome, when the women call me handsome,
I'll hold my virtue very firmly by myself."
To which the angel simply replies: "I guarantee you'll hold it often"
Christopher Hitchens during the time he realized he was soon about to die described life as being like the best party ever. A diagnosis of impending death is like being tapped on the shoulder and being told you have to leave, although the party will go on without you.
But rather than losing heart at this he said this is much better than the myths of religions like Christianity which are like being tapped on the shoulder and told you can NEVER leave and what is more.... in ominous tones you are informed..... the host positively INSISTS you have a good time.
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Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144
So my question. Is the world bad because God is a bad person? Or is it bad because God needs help and feels like nobody is helping?
I think the OP was talking about the Christian god? You appear to subscribe to a different idea of god than most Christians so I am not sure you are addressing the OP really.
Because most Christians appear to think of god as an ALL powerful being of infinite capability and resource. Such a god would not "need help". Your god might. The Christian god does not.
Alas for both however no one, least of all you or any Christian on this forum, has substantiated the existence of these gods one iota.
All we get around here is the occasional new ager linguistically defining god into existence through the misuse of language. Or people like JeffBase40 who go around declaring over and over again there are over 100 proofs of god.... before giving one of his 10 or 20 stock cop out excuses why today is not the day he will be telling you what even ONE of them actually is.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Man is responsible for all that "crap". I can confidently say that 90% of the world's social problems would be wiped out if everyone followed God's principles in the Bible.
A throw away assertion that is not only unsubstantiated, but there is by definition no way TO substantiate it.
You know if 100% of the word followed Nazi principles, or ISIS principles 90% and maybe even more of the world's social problems would be wiped out too. The same could be said after reading 1984 or Brave New World.
Why? Because what you are essentially proposing is that we turn all of humanity into mindless automaton copies of each other all following the same precepts identically. And sure.... if you do THAT then you are likely 100% correct. Social problems will en masse simply disappear.
And we have people like Woodrow on the forum espousing exactly that with his religion. In their effort to clone themselves off one man, many Muslims attempt also to stifle human diversity. Go ask him why Muslim do not engage with certain kinds of music or musical instruments for example some time and see for yourself.
I hate social problems and I work very hard with many other good people to lessen their effect. But I would rather have them in the world than trade this world for the "We are Borg!" existence you, your fundamentalist cohort, and your Islamic and North Korean equivalents are trying to sell us. Because mass social peace and balance is not worth the price of human diversity and individuality that you hate so very much to your god fearing core.
And the BS pile just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
Threads like this are a perfect illustration of the Law of BS Asymmetry, which states that the energy required to refute BS is an order of magnitude larger than the energy required to produce it.
The Law of BS Asymmetry is one of the primary weapons in the Fundamentalist Christian Arsenal.
Why? You believe Adam & Eve were in the Garden of Eden, living in perfect harmony with God, walking and talking with God, even. They were told that if they disobeyed God, they would die. If they threw away their paradise because they had free will, why do you imagine people in heaven wouldn't?
Because "God will have all mankind to be saved and **come into a realization of the truth** (1 Tim.2:4-6).
Once all mankind come into an actual realization of the truth, not just assenting to the truth, and once all mankind put on immortality and incorruption and God is All in all (1 Cor.15:28), and all mankind are no longer ruled by the "will of the fiesh" but will be ruled by the spirit, it is a sure bet people in that far off time that those who experience such a wonderful change would not want to throw it away.
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