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A Jew is someone who comes from one of the 12 tribes of Israel. A Jew is not a Jew by what a Jew believes. Some Jews don't even believe in God yet they are still Jews.
You conflate cultural Judaism with religious Judaism.
Technically because cultural Judaism is conferred through the mother, my wife is Jewish because her father's 2nd wife was Jewish and adopted her and her siblings. As such she was allowed to work on a kibbutz in Israel back in her salad days, all she had to do was pick up the phone and ask the Israeli embassy for permission to go, which was granted based on her adoption papers. This despite being the birth daughter of midwestern farm stock who are about as Jewish as my Swedish / German self and most are members of the Daughters of the American Revolution ;-)
Reform Judaism regards Messianic Jews as apostates:
Quote:
'Messianic Jews' claim that they are Jews, but we must asked [sic] ourselves whether we identify them as Jews. We can not do so as they consider Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah who has fulfilled the Messianic promises. In this way, they have clearly placed themselves within Christianity. They may be somewhat different from other Christians as they follow various Jewish rites and ceremonials, but that does not make them Jews."
I am sure the same thing can be said about the Twelve Tribes sect, which observes both Jewish feasts and Christian sacraments. It is the same thing from the other direction. Messianic Jews have bolted Christianity onto Jewish identity, whereas the Twelve Tribes have bolted Judaism onto Christian identity. Messianic Jews would like to be accepted as Jewish, in fact as the best kind of Jew -- a 'completed' Jew. On the other hand to my knowledge the Twelve Tribes members don't want to be seen as Jewish but as more fully observant Christians. Maybe you would accept them as Christian despite them closing their businesses on Jewish feast days, but a lot of Christians would consider them guilty of apostasy, specifically violating salvation by faith alone by embracing at least some of OT law. Regardless, here again, Christians (or at least each Christian denomination) get to decide if Twelve Tribes members are Christians and Jews (or at least each Jewish religious movement) get to decide if Messianic Jews are Jews. For most of the latter it is a bridge too far.
But I don't see any great need to argue the point further. It's a technical point with many dimensions: cultural, religious, personal, political and genealogical. A person can be Jewish or not Jewish depending on which of those dimensions you are talking about, and depending on whether you're asking a Reform Jew or an Orthodox Jew, or a purely cultural Jew, etc. Mainly I'm simply trying to get across that you are making a religious argument and the vast majority of religious Jews consider belief in Christ as the Messiah is a rejection of Judaism and Jewish religious identity.
I don't care if Reform Judaism regards Messianic Jews as apostates. That doesn't make them wrong to believe Christ is the Messiah and believing such does not somehow not make them born of Jewish parents.
The Bible makes the claim and the Bible says that the claim true.
David prophesied concerning Christ that He would die and not be acquainted with death and be resurrected to the right hand of God.
Seeing that Christ is the only One to fulfill that prophetic statement, it would be improper for Peter to tell his fellow Jews that that verse was fulfilled by someone else or that it was not fulfilled at all.
The Bible doesn't just make a claim and then says that claim is true. The Bible prophesied things thousands of years before Christ and He is the only one to fulfill those prophetic statements.
I was raised by Catholic parents, and I am really starting to laugh at the idea of going to Heaven. I think it's as bad as Hell (no pun intended). I think Heaven is a paradise for people who want to remain virgins and being prudes forever. If that's what our destiny is like, God is a sick God. It doesn't help that he's ignoring what's happening with the planet getting worse in this generation.
I refuse to accept anything that's supposed to go beyond our understanding, that fact is a sick, cold reality in itself.
Unfortunately, there is absolutely no reasoned case for a physical, beautiful afterlife. Why is the physical stuff on this planet so evil?
They do not follow Judaism and 'pretend' to still be Jews
Okay, I'll bite.
Let's assume this is true.
So does that mean the core teaching of Judaism is that Jesus is not the Messiah?
...Last I checked, that wasn't it.
Judaism is about the Unity of God (meaning even if they believed Jesus was the Messiah, they wouldn't believe in the Trinity). It is about Jewish law, keeping kosher. It is about being a people distinct from the Gentile. It is about the hope of the rebuilt Temple and the new state of Israel. And it's about the hope of a world to come in the Last Days.
What, then, makes these Jews "not true Jews"? Nothing. The teachers that teach them this are selling them up the river. The status of Jesus as Messiah is neither for or against Judaism, it's a simple belief that you can take or leave. The rabbis have no place telling other people what they can or can't believe in that regard.
Just as I, who go to church, can follow kosher law, yet this does not make me Jewish (since I'm a Gentile), a Jew can believe as they wish and still be a Jew.
What is taken into the body does not corrupt. Only what comes out of the body.
What, then, makes these Jews "not true Jews"? Nothing. The teachers that teach them this are selling them up the river. The status of Jesus as Messiah is neither for or against Judaism, it's a simple belief that you can take or leave. The rabbis have no place telling other people what they can or can't believe in that regard.
guess what.....Jewish law has my best interests at heart
those who promote other religions to Jews, do NOT have a Jew's best interests at heart,
rather they are proselytizing for their own agenda
it is idolatry for a Jew. the authority for a Jew is halacha. period. Judaism determines that, not other religions. the view expressed above is incorrect, dishonest, utterly lacking in respect, offensive and damaging to Jews individually and collectively.
"Messianics" are an evangelical Christian group that is rejected by every stream of Judaism world-wide; and also condemned by mainstream Christian leadership for their deceptive practices.
If someone stoops to lying to get customers....what does that say about the quality of the product they are peddling?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-24-2016 at 08:56 AM..
I was raised by Catholic parents, and I am really starting to laugh at the idea of going to Heaven. I think it's as bad as Hell (no pun intended). I think Heaven is a paradise for people who want to remain virgins and being prudes forever. If that's what our destiny is like, God is a sick God. It doesn't help that he's ignoring what's happening with the planet getting worse in this generation.
I refuse to accept anything that's supposed to go beyond our understanding, that fact is a sick, cold reality in itself.
Unfortunately, there is absolutely no reasoned case for a physical, beautiful afterlife. Why is the physical stuff on this planet so evil?
/rant
I know. Why IS the stuff on this planet and flesh CONSIDERED so evil? Maybe it's because of OLD men?
David prophesied concerning Christ that He would die and not be acquainted with death and be resurrected to the right hand of God.
Seeing that Christ is the only One to fulfill that prophetic statement, it would be improper for Peter to tell his fellow Jews that that verse was fulfilled by someone else or that it was not fulfilled at all.
The Bible doesn't just make a claim and then says that claim is true. The Bible prophesied things thousands of years before Christ and He is the only one to fulfill those prophetic statements.
Well of course it conveniently fits with the prophecy written a thousand years earlier. Was I supposed to find a prophecy which had nothing to do with Christ dying, being entombed, not seeing decay and resurrecting?
The Jews in Christ's day who Peter spoke to knew it had to be about Christ.
A Jew is someone who comes from one of the 12 tribes of Israel. A Jew is not a Jew by what a Jew believes. Some Jews don't even believe in God yet they are still Jews.
No, David wrote the prophetic statement and Christ is the only one who fulfilled it.
He is real, He was crucified on the cross and resurrected from the tomb to go back to Heaven with His Father. He is the Messiah.
You tell em Eusebius
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