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Was this addressed to myself, or somebody else? It is often necessary to dismiss subjective experiences and thoughts in order to find the objective truth.
It comes down to personal responsibility. We each are responsible for our beliefs. The result is we are all obligated to verify all things that we belive.
Once we our self have verified something to be true, we have no choice except to believe it.
Sadly many of us are content to accept something is true on the basis we are told so by somebody we were taught to revere. Sheeple are not believers, they are followers.
It is not a question about a belief being the "Right" religion, it is a question of how well we have verified what we believe.
Because I believe the path I am on will lead to heaven, does not mean I believe some one who differs with me will not get to heaven.
I have no issue with people who disagree with me, I only desire that they do so because they them self have verified what they believe.
An individual has no need to prove some one else is in error, but we all have the responsibility to find proof that what we our self believe is true.
I'm not Religious...nor am I Atheist. I'm a Generic Theist that perceives ALL THAT EXISTS to be God.
Obviously...it is simple to objectively and empirically verify that "ALL" does, in fact, exist.
I see the Atheists ask the Religious all the time: How they "verified" what they believe?
You note in this thread on several posts how important it is to verify what you believe. And not just as "sheeple" basing the verification beyond what you were told, or what you read...but to "find proof". You say "we all have the responsibility" to do this.
If I may....could I ask you to reveal how you fulfilled this responsibility to "find proof that what you believe is true" beyond the "sheeple follower method" of just going by what you were told through speech or writing?
What objective/emperical proof did you find for the existence of the Deity and the tenants of what you believe in, as per your stated responsiblity for all to do so? Beyond just being told (so as not to be one of the "sheeple") through speech and written words, of course.
What was this "Nonsheeple follower" verification/investigation method you used to prove what you believe is true? And how did this method serve to provide that required proof?
I grew up Catholic. We attended mass weekly, and I did everything a catholic you would do, like first communion, first confession, confirmation. I also served as an altar boy. In my teen years I started to question it and I eventually stopped going to church.
I started to wonder about God more, and went out and bought a Bible so I could argue with a friend when I was in my late teens. Eventually, I started to read it more and I actually believed it. A couple years later I followed another friend into a large church and it was there a few weeks later that God saved me. He called me out of my sin and He is the reason I believe.
So, to answer your question...it was God. It wasn't luck, it wasn't just the religion I was born into....it was God that called me. But not because I'm special. The Bible is clear that he elects some to salvation not on any basis of their merit. There is nothing about me that caused God to choose me.
Other religions I checked out along the way? I did read the Book of Mormon. I had a roommate that studied with the JW's and I was almost drawn into their group. I had a friend that was into Word of Faith theology, and I went to a Kenneth Haggin Camp meeting. I remember watching Creflo Dollar when he was just a nobody, up-and-commer in the WoF movement. But none of those really stuck. I believe God has ordained that I am where I am. I've been a Conservative Evangelical Christian now for 22 years.
You've got a big fat contradiction there, Vizio. If God singled you out from all the billions of other people He could have called then there WAS something special about you. God loved you more than He loved the rest of us poor schmucks. He pulled you out of the muck of sin and left nearly everybody else of color in poor countries in it. Christians call that "unmerited favor". Put another way, God favored you above all the others. Put still another way, God IS a respecter of person, contrary of Peter in Acts 10:34.
And notice that 99% of those He bestowed this "unmerited favor" on are mostly white, well-off people in developed countries with 1st-class standards of living. That is known by another form of salvation called "salvation of the elite" where well-to-do rich folk and their families and other wealthy church members will have their McMansions in the sky with walls so high the poor rabble of minority races will never be able to jump over the walls and turn your neighborhoods into ghettos. That's really what "election" has come to, hasn't it? That's what Joel Osteen's mega-church and other mega-churches in wealthy suburbs are all about anyway.
But fear not. Benny Hinn is busy in Africa "saving" hundreds of millions of Africans these days. Your carefully segregated heavenly neighborhoods are about to be overrun.
My personal experience with God thru Jesus Christ. If you are going to reply, please have the respect to not be a smart alec like so many on here when someone says they believe in Christ.
How was he being a "smart alec"? It was a legitimate response. You said that there was no such thing as the right religion, then proceeded to say that Christianity was the right religion. Yea, yea, you didn't actually SAY Christianity, but that was clearly what you meant by all your talk of Jesus. So his question...
So what makes you believe that Christianity is the ONE truth. What differentiates that from Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam and all the others?
...is a legitimate question. People of those religions listed above all think the EXACT SAME way you do about their religion. So.... what makes YOURS the correct one?
I thought I was being respectful. I mean, you knew what the question was before answering the thread.
At any rate, other people have the same experiences with their own deities as you have had with Jesus. If you were born in India, you would have probably had a profound personal experience with Vishnu (OK, you can probably tell that I'm not quite an expert on Hindu theology here). If we're taking your "personal experience with God thru [sic] Jesus Christ" as evidence, we must be respectful and do the same with people of other religions who claim the same. Therefore, all of those experiences, moving as though they are, would cancel each other out.
You were being respectful, but I don't know you personally, and didn't know if you were going to make fun of me due to my faith in Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, that is the typical response from people on this website when I identify myself as a Christian. I can't argue any of your points, I can only speak from my experience.
I'm not Religious...nor am I Atheist. I'm a Generic Theist that perceives ALL THAT EXISTS to be God.
Obviously...it is simple to objectively and empirically verify that "ALL" does, in fact, exist.
I see the Atheists ask the Religious all the time: How they "verified" what they believe?
You note in this thread on several posts how important it is to verify what you believe. And not just as "sheeple" basing the verification beyond what you were told, or what you read...but to "find proof". You say "we all have the responsibility" to do this.
If I may....could I ask you to reveal how you fulfilled this responsibility to "find proof that what you believe is true" beyond the "sheeple follower method" of just going by what you were told through speech or writing?
What objective/emperical proof did you find for the existence of the Deity and the tenants of what you believe in, as per your stated responsiblity for all to do so? Beyond just being told (so as not to be one of the "sheeple") through speech and written words, of course.
What was this "Nonsheeple follower" verification/investigation method you used to prove what you believe is true? And how did this method serve to provide that required proof?
Proof by default is limited to the best of our abilities.
It begins with the step of questioning all things and continues to being a path of always seeking verification.
What one person finds to be true may not convince any one else. That is not of any importance on the individual level. We each have our own criteria of what will convince us of the truth and through constant questioning we should continuously refine that.
I was and had been a very happy Atheist for about 20 years after having been a sheeple for the first 45 years of my life. I had no evidence of the existence of any god and could find no reason to believe one did exist.
However at the age of 65 a very deep personal experience convinced me that a power greater than I imagined did exist. I do not believe personal experiences can serve as proof to anyone except the person who experiences it. It did convince me that God(swt) does exist and that Islam is the proper way to worship.
Yes, I still question all things and verify all things to the best of my ability.
Each person has to find reason that they alone will accept the responsibility for the consequences of their beliefs. No one has the luxury of claiming "I was Misled" it is our responsibility to not be misled.
I'm a Zen Buddhist, and what stands out is that it's not really a religion as such, more of a total way of being that is there to be practiced each and every moment. I'm not very good at it I must say, but that's OK. No one is judging me except myself, which is the crux of the whole matter :]
There's no deity to watch over us (which is not to say there is or is not a god), there is no spiritual leader such as a pope, there is most certainly nothing spiritual or holy about it, and it does not rely on teachers or scriptures. I had to get rid of everything from previous spiritual disciplines before I could grasp that there is nothing whatsoever to grasp onto. There is nowhere to go, so forget seeking, as we're already there. There are no beliefs. None. That startles most people, as they think that someone w/o beliefs could justify anything, but we have 8 precepts that are simple common sense, and go much deeper than most religious admonishments. None of us need to be told not to steal, not to lie, etc. We all intuitively know that, but the precepts go a bit deeper. And in the right situation, it might be OK to break these precepts if it keeps another living being from harm. It's about being responsible for my actions, not following a written code of conduct. It's learning to think for myself, but discovering that this is impossible until I peel the many layers of habituated thought away to what I really am. It's those rare moments when I know, not believe, that everything, the sky, god, the sun, the little bugs, my fears and disappointments, birth and death, are all one. All of which is impossible to realize until I figure out who or what I am, and let go of what I think I am. It's about not causing harm to any living sentient being if it can be avoided, as we are all one. One has to make drastic sacrifices, commitments and changes, and it's the work of a life time. Basic focused meditation on your breath is the practice.
Last edited by smarino; 01-27-2016 at 07:24 PM..
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