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Old 02-04-2016, 04:49 PM
 
1,490 posts, read 1,210,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Give us a third. Prove it wrong. That's the funny thing with you and your side...you tell us CAN'T be a creator..but you have no other clue what it could be. You're willing to believe all sorts of fairy tales
Mordant gave you about 7 of them.

You don't know that the universe didn't always exist. But unlike your God-claim, we aren't trotting that out as "proof" of anything but the uselessness of any logical possibility being believed....without reasoned evidence. And your incredulity is not reasoned evidence...let alone proof.
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Old 02-04-2016, 04:54 PM
 
1,490 posts, read 1,210,428 times
Reputation: 669
On a side note....it is good to see Vizio is at least looking for better arguments for his beliefs.

I suspect it's because at some level he realizes that the theist arguments he's heard before aND accepted aren't very compelling to most people....nor to himself when they are debunked.

It's progress as I see it....
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:02 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,136,666 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinEden99 View Post
Mordant gave you about 7 of them.

You don't know that the universe didn't always exist.
Of course I do. You didn't read the link, did you? The 2nd law of thermodynamics tells us that the universe HAD to have had a beginning.
Quote:

But unlike your God-claim, we aren't trotting that out as "proof" of anything but the uselessness of any logical possibility being believed....without reasoned evidence. And your incredulity is not reasoned evidence...let alone proof.
I've proven that the universe had to have a cause. It's really not even up for debate. But, as I said..that is different than persuasion...so you're hanging on to it.

You have 2 options: either a personal Creator caused the universe to exist, or not. Are you now going to try to go with "not"?
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:05 PM
 
Location: USA
18,461 posts, read 9,106,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You have 2 options: either a personal Creator caused the universe to exist, or not. Are you now going to try to go with "not"?
There's a third option: Giant Space Crabs.
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Old 02-04-2016, 05:43 PM
 
1,490 posts, read 1,210,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Of course I do. You didn't read the link, did you? The 2nd law of thermodynamics tells us that the universe HAD to have had a beginning.
First off...no it actually does not tell us that. It tells us the behavior of energy within a system....where the "system" in this case is the universe itself. Thermodynamics is not able to talk about the macroscopic nature of a subsystem which may or may not exist within a larger system as we don't have a frame of reference for "outside the universe ".

Second....you're right I didn't bother to read your link as I am no stranger to CARM arguments. But I went back and checked your link...sure enough the same fallacies as the ones I've seen before.

Take #1 in that list. It asserts that everything needs a cause. Yet you use special pleading for your god. How can you even trot that out with a straight face?

Nope...no matter how many logical fallacies you are willing to commit...you do NOT in fact know that everything had a cause.


Quote:
I've proven that the universe had to have a cause. It's really not even up for debate. But, as I said..that is different than persuasion...so you're hanging on to it.

You have 2 options: either a personal Creator caused the universe to exist, or not. Are you now going to try to go with "not"?
Yeah we know you didn't prove anything even if you pray really hard for it to be true.

That aside...I don't have to accept either option in your dichotomy. Certainly not to the level that I base my entire existence around the concept and start believing books written by primitive men.

But naturally, if one follows the evidence and sets aside their confirmation bias and desire for a particular thing to be true....then of course the rational conclusion is that a creator wasn't necessary to explain the big bang. Why would it?
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,231,599 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Give us a third. Prove it wrong. That's the funny thing with you and your side...you tell us CAN'T be a creator..but you have no other clue what it could be. You're willing to believe all sorts of fairy tales
You sure like to throw around the word fairy-tale. I would be willing to bet that you have no clue what a fairy-tale is...even though your entire relgious beliefs are founded on a deceptive fairy-tale.

You are the one who is willing to believe in fairy tales. Not us.
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,427 posts, read 12,723,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
There's a third option: Giant Space Crabs.
Finally! An honest atheist. You admit there is no other choice.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:19 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
10,941 posts, read 5,914,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Give us a third. Prove it wrong. That's the funny thing with you and your side...you tell us CAN'T be a creator..but you have no other clue what it could be. You're willing to believe all sorts of fairy tales
There is only one 'fairy tail' and we don't accept it as plausible, ie, we don't believe it. So your statement is false. And for your information, we do have a clue as to how it happened and yes, we can prove it wasn't by an intelligent creator. If it was, it wouldn't be such a dismal stuff-up.

You cannot prove the universe was created by an intelligence and you cannot tell us the bible says so because the bible does not say so. Show us where in the bible is tells us that God created the universe.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,821,127 times
Reputation: 2879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Give us a third. Prove it wrong. That's the funny thing with you and your side...you tell us CAN'T be a creator..but you have no other clue what it could be.
The universe has always been there in some form or other. There! I've proved it wrong.
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Old 02-05-2016, 07:33 AM
 
Location: USA
18,461 posts, read 9,106,258 times
Reputation: 8495
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Finally! An honest atheist. You admit there is no other choice.
Of course! It had to be the Giant Space Crabs. It's the only logical choice!

It couldn't possibly have been the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, the Christian God, Thor, or the Invisible Burrito Creature. That'd just be silly.
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