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I do have an agenda. It is to show that all the claims from Christians about persecution, intrusion into their religion, and of mistreatment are just a bunch of baloney claims that all boil down to they don't get to run roughshod over people they don't like any more .
And about 175 posts in we can see that this is exactly the case .
I'm a Christian, but I at least have to give you credit for being honest about your agenda.
I'm a Christian, but I at least have to give you credit for being honest about your agenda.
Do you regard it as wrong to point out that the claims of persecution and intrusion by atheists into the religious beliefs of Christians are BS because the so called persecutions involve Christians no longer being able to abuse and mistreat those they don't agree with ?
I accept the science behind evolution but I think I am special, my family is special, my friends are special, even my dogs and cats were special. I do not understand how anyone can make the claim that if you accept evolution (and many Christians obviously do) then you must think that life is meaningless. I do not need a book or a god to give my life meaning nor do I think that someone who believes in a god or the Bible does not find meaning in their life. As far as people goes to me there are only three sides, those who treat me good, those who do not treat me good and those with whom I have never had any contact direrctly or indirectly with such as the elder couple who live in a blue house in Sidney Australia where I have never been.
To be called out for making these false accusations over and over is not persecuting them, it is merely showing them they have a incorrect perseption. Having laws that allow some people the same rights as others is not persecuting those who have the view that these people should not have rights. Stating that Christians have to obey the same law as non Christians is not persecution. Telling everyone they must obey some narrow intrepretation of Christianity is not right and telling that group of Christians that the laws should not be based on their personal religious views is also not persecution.
I do not beleive that Jeff enjoys the feeling of being persecution however I do believe that his worldview is such that anything short of following his worldview is an attack on his religion. I would like to see his evidence that in the United States Christians are hated more than Muslims or even athesists. I would also like to see his evidence that 100% of the athesists on this forum hate Christians, not some aspect of it but the people themselves. I have seen more vitrole from some Christians towards Catholics than from many of the atheists towards Christians. Having said that I do not see why we should simply accept Jeff's claim that evolution is a lie. Jeff I do not think you have the scientific background to back your claim and if it is just your opinion then I do not think that you should imply that those who research and teach in the field of evolution are liars. Not a single person has yet to falsify the theory of evolution and it will only take one true study to do so.
When you make comments like that, how can you even begin to wonder why people ridicule you? Frankly, if that is what you believe, you DESERVE to be ridiculed.
Wow, talk about not being out in the real world. Newsflash, in the real world, most people believe in a Creator. That means most people do not believe like YOU. Are you saying that the majority of the world's population deserves to be ridiculed?
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Originally Posted by Rafius
No it doesn't. I have debunked that ludicrous argument before and still you repeat it. Don't you even bother to read what people write in response to your statements? MURDER is PREMEDITATE, UNLAWFUL killing. Killing insects that may be injurious to our health is not yet UNLAWFUL and until it is then it cannot be classed as MURDER. Please try to understand.
And who gets to determine that killing X species is lawful? How is that moral? Course if we go with your thinking then it is pretty hypocritical to claim that God is murderer destroying mankind who was being harmful to the health of his entire creation.
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Originally Posted by Rafius
...and btw. You asked me to back up a statement I made. I did so in post #161. Why have you ignored it? You asked me for biblical evidence for my statement and I gave it to you and now....because you got your arse handed to you on a plate and you can't dispute what I gave you, you ignore it! Comes to something when an atheist knows the Bible better than you Jeff. Well, if you are not going to respond to what I gave you, don't you EVER again claim that we don't back up our claims. It's not that we don't back up our claims, it's that you IGNORE it.
I don't have time to address every post so I tend to pick the last ones and work back. All you done is show how you rush to assumptions. I read post #161 and none of those verses instruct Christians to purposely seek out persecution to earn brownie points. It is only stating the reality that will exist if you take a stand for Christ.
Do you regard it as wrong to point out that the claims of persecution and intrusion by atheists into the religious beliefs of Christians are BS because the so called persecutions involve Christians no longer being able to abuse and mistreat those they don't agree with ?
You will have to re word your question. Atheists have no impact on my life one way or another. I personally have not been persecuted. I don't believe that Christians by and large are really persecuted in America, although they certainly are in some parts of the world. While I disagree with atheism, I do not believe it has much influence in our society. America is being ruined from the inside out- I believe that eventually Islam will take over America. Regardless of what happens, my focus is on my relationship with God, as I'm powerless over others.
You will have to re word your question. Atheists have no impact on my life one way or another. I personally have not been persecuted. I don't believe that Christians by and large are really persecuted in America, although they certainly are in some parts of the world. While I disagree with atheism, I do not believe it has much influence in our society. America is being ruined from the inside out- I believe that eventually Islam will take over America. Regardless of what happens, my focus is on my relationship with God, as I'm powerless over others.
If you are not one of the ones believing themselves to be persecuted and mistreated by atheists then the OP was not meant for you.
Congratulations on your sensible thinking .If all Christians simply worried about their own lives and left others alone the world would be a better place and Christianity would receive more respect from the non religious .
So what, it's the same principle. You can't use the "it's the law, shut up and follow it" argument if you dared protest when the law didn't swing your way. The same federal government treated the Native Americans horribly. And it was done under the letter of the law. Guess what? That doesn't mean that they were not persecuted for who they were.
All you are trying to do is justify persecution because you think homosexuality is good and moral. And we are just ignorant homophobes. That doesn't change reality. Changing the definition of persecution doesn't either. Let's look at the definition:
Persecution - hostility and ill-treatment, especially because of race or political or religious beliefs..
Are atheists hostile towards Christians? Most certainly at least on a verbal level.
Are Christians ill-treated for their faith? Absolutely. We are mocked and ridiculed frequently by atheists.
Demanding that Christians surrender their freedom of religion on the altar of a new moral standard is persecution. How about just respecting a difference in beliefs? Is that so hard?
Loving your neighbors is not a "new moral standard". It is the very core of what Christ taught. The prayer of confession in The Book of Common Prayer includes confessing what we have left undone and admitting that we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. This reminder can prompt us to make those corrections, and that is what has happened here. When we find that our actions are harmful to or exclude others just because of who they are, we need to change ourselves, not ask them to change to fit our personal prejudices.
What do we care what atheists think? They don't believe in God. They are acting according to that disbelief. Let it roll off your back. God's not injured.
Location: NYC based - Used to Live in Philly - Transplant from Miami
2,307 posts, read 2,763,776 times
Reputation: 2610
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Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks
We have had both come Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses come to our home trying to convert us. Funny story: My now wife and I were having a garage sale. It was a blisteringly hot day in July (TX), we were nearly closed up, and putting the last of the things in the garage, while dreading the prospect of putting all the leftover items out the next morning and doing the deal all over again. Just then, two Mormon boys pulled up in our driveway on their bikes. I groaned, but my wife, ever the optimist, said, "Maybe they want to buy something." I told her, "I don't think so, Dear." As she is more diplomatic than I, I decided to be quiet and let her handle them. Boy, was that a mistake.
They came into the chock full garage, and one of the guys pretended to be interested in the stuff, and rifled through much of it, making random comments, while the other missionary began to delicately probe us about our nonexistent religious beliefs. He droned on and on for 20 minutes while I waited for my wife to tell him we weren't interested, but she was too polite to do that. Finally my heat exhaustion and irritation got the best of me, and when the missionary asked us if we wanted to come to his temple, I told him no, they wouldn't welcome us there. He asked us, "Why not?" I said, "Because we're gay!" and proceeded to shut the garage door on both of them, locking them out.
HA!
Speaking of Mormons.
Same thing happened to my friend.
A bunch of us friends are hanging out in our friend's place. And two Mormon dudes knocked at the door.
My friend opened the door. He politely said that we were not interested.
They kept probing him questions.
He finally said to one of the Mormon guy that he would consider going to their church if the Mormon guy is there.
Fast forward to 2016.
My friend and the Mormon guy are happily married and moved to New Hampshire.
Wow, talk about not being out in the real world. Newsflash, in the real world, most people believe in a Creator.
So what! There was once a time when most people believed that the Earth was flat and illness was caused by 'demons'.
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That means most people do not believe like YOU. Are you saying that the majority of the world's population deserves to be ridiculed?
If they run their lives and also expect others to run their lives on ancient superstition then yes.
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And who gets to determine that killing X species is lawful?
Those that make the laws of course.
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How is that moral? Course if we go with your thinking then it is pretty hypocritical to claim that God is murderer destroying mankind who was being harmful to the health of his entire creation.
It is immoral when the 'creator' deliberately sets up the 'creation' to fail and then punishes the 'creation' for failing. Such is the case with your god.
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All you done is show how you rush to assumptions.
All you DID Jeff, not 'All you done'
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I read post #161 and none of those verses instruct Christians to purposely seek out persecution to earn brownie points.
I didn't say that they did instruct Christians to seek out persecution, so don't put your words into my mouth. What I said was that YOU think that persecution will get you extra points to get into heaven based on what your Bible said. You then claimed that the Bible said no such thing about being rewarded for being 'persecuted'. I proved that it does. You lose Jeff...again.
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