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But of course, you won't back down because you need the OT laws to be binding to make Christians look hypocritical.
No, they do a superb job themselves without my help.
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He never fullfilled or accomplished anything.
We are still waiting for you to show that he even existed. Your claims about what he did or didn't do are irrelevant unless you can show that he existed in the first place...and that you have not done.
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The verse doesn't say that the law will exist until heaven and earth pass away.
Yes it does...
Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0&version=KJ21
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Did you even study the possibility that the term "forever" could have a different meaning than the modern day English equivalent?
LOL! That old chestnut! If you can't find a way out, just claim that 'things were different back then'.
No, they do a superb job themselves without my help.
We are still waiting for you to show that he even existed. Your claims about what he did or didn't do are irrelevant unless you can show that he existed in the first place...and that you have not done.
Then why are we even having this discussion? All you have shown me is that you won't examine the Bible in proper context and can only rip any argument out of skeptic annotated bible which really is a work of pure garbage.
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Originally Posted by Rafius
Yes it does...
Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0&version=KJ21
Complete refusal to look at context and language. With your interpretation, the "till all be fullfilled" part must be completely ignored
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Originally Posted by Rafius
LOL! That old chestnut! If you can't find a way out, just claim that 'things were different back then'.
A way out of what? Only thing you are showing me here is your desire for playing games and mockery.
A way out of what? Only thing you are showing me here is your desire for playing games and mockery.
1. If you can't handle some mockery thrown your way, or even a lot without grace, love and humility; then you haven't spiritually matured enough yet to discuss these things. Christians are not to win debates with those who believe differently. We are to love them with everything we have. Even when...especially when they seem hateful toward us. In talking with some atheists, and hearing their stories...it was heart wrenching. They've been abused by Christians for far too long, and it needs to stop.
2. Aren't you doing the same thing you are accusing Rufius of with your condescension and arrogance? In my opinion you need to look inside yourself more.
...because if we keep you talking Jeff, the world can see the pitfalls of religious fundamentalism...and that can only be good.
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All you have shown me is that you won't examine the Bible in proper context .....
There is nothing to examine old chap. Yahweh said that his laws would never change. Never, ever! Jesus confirmed it by saying that he had not come to abolish the laws and that they would remain in place until 'heaven and earth passed away'. Now you can argue all day about the definition of the word 'fulfil' but it is irrelevant because you see Jeff, if you would only use a little common sense, reason and logic you would see that, when your man-god said 'fulfil', he did not mean abolish - simply because just one sentence earlier he specifically, categorically and unambiguously stated that he had NOT come to abolish the laws. Why would your JtC say he had not come to abolish the laws and that they would remain until heaven and earth passed away and then, just a few seconds later say, I have fulfilled (abolished) the laws. Doesn't make sense Jeff!
...because if we keep you talking Jeff, the world can see the pitfalls of religious fundamentalism...and that can only be good.
The more you keep talking, the more you show the ugly side of atheism.
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Originally Posted by Rafius
There is nothing to examine old chap. Yahweh said that his laws would never change. Never, ever! Jesus confirmed it by saying that he had not come to abolish the laws and that they would remain in place until 'heaven and earth passed away'. Now you can argue all day about the definition of the word 'fulfil' but it is irrelevant because you see Jeff, if you would only use a little common sense, reason and logic you would see that, when your man-god said 'fulfil', he did not mean abolish - simply because just one sentence earlier he specifically, categorically and unambiguously stated that he had NOT come to abolish the laws. Why would your JtC say he had not come to abolish the laws and that they would remain until heaven and earth passed away and then, just a few seconds later say, I have fulfilled (abolished) the laws. Doesn't make sense Jeff!
Of course not. If you had to examine context and language of the Bible fairly, you would have to give up your favorite argument. "Fullfill" is a very important word that you have to completely ignore to cling to your wafer thin argument. Jesus said he didn't come to abolish because He wanted to make the point that He wasn't there to be an opposition to the law and create a whole new set of laws. He was the fulfillment of the law. My point stands which you conveniently ignored. There is no reason for Christ to die if we are still under the Law. I'll argue it all day with you because you are flat out wrong.
Then why are we even having this discussion? All you have shown me is that you won't examine the Bible in proper context and can only rip any argument out of skeptic annotated bible which really is a work of pure garbage.
Complete refusal to look at context and language. With your interpretation, the "till all be fullfilled" part must be completely ignored
A way out of what? Only thing you are showing me here is your desire for playing games and mockery.
Jeff
The reason for this post is that you continually wish for the Bible to be taken in the proper context (yours I assume) but you are readily willing to take scientists out of any context and atheists as well. All concepts should be taken in their proper context. Having said that, from someone who is not religious and has not studied the Bible both sides here seem to have some context on their side. Perhaps instead of repeating the one sentence and calling for it to be taken in context you could further explain the entire verse or section in its context to explain your view of the laws. Just a suggestion, you can ignore if you wish as the only interest I have is understanding each side's point.
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