Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think it more likely to be the other way around. An afterlife does not imply the existence of a God.
'after life' does Not mean resurrection.
If a person is still alive at death, or more alive at death, that is Not resurrection.
Jesus did Not teach ' after life ' ( alive at death ) but taught resurrection - John 11:11-14
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which teach only sleep in death:
- References: Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; 146:4; Daniel 12:2;,13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or another we need someone who can do that for us. Jesus can and will. - Rev. 1:18
Acts 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be' a resurrection.....'
Some have a first or earlier resurrection - Rev. 20:6; 2:10; 5:9-10 which is to heaven.
The majority of mankind will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on earth during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth when there will be healing for all of earth's nations - Rev. 22:2
In fact, it is throughly delineated that it is by their culture and children that their God rewarded them, and that the tree of eternal life (which the gods had access to) was inaccessible to all humans. The humans got the gods' mental acuity but not their immortality, (they were never even meant to get the knowledge of good and evil, let alone immortality that would allow them to challenge the Heavens). But still, procreation is a type of immortality for humanity.
Death didn't enter at "sin/guilt," because then the tree of eternal life would not be needed at the beginning.
Adam and Eve had access to the ' tree of life ', it was the tree of knowledge of good and bad they were forbidden.
How many fruit trees are on earth ? __________
Out of all the fruit tress only one tree belonged to God - That forbidden tree.
It was as if God put up a No trespassing sign on that one particular tree.
If you had a generous neighbor who had very many fruit trees and he said you can come over any time you want and eat as much fruit as you want except for one particular tree, would you consider your neighbor as Not being generous?
Angels Nor humans were offered immortality but everlasting life. There is a difference.
The immortal are death proof. Everlasting life is conditional.
As long as Not breaking God's Law the angels could live forever in the heavens.
Humans could live forever ( everlasting life ) right here on earth.
Adam was never offered to become immortal, but as long as Not breaking God's Law could live forever on earth.
Please notice Revelation 22:2 because mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on earth when ALL nations of earth will be healed. Enemy death will be No more on earth. - 1st Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
I think it more likely to be the other way around. An afterlife does not imply the existence of a God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
'after life' does Not mean resurrection.
If a person is still alive at death, or more alive at death, that is Not resurrection.
Jesus did Not teach ' after life ' ( alive at death ) but taught resurrection - John 11:11-14
I get what you'e saying but I was referring to the continued existence of consciousness after physical death.
I don't consider Jesus to be God. He was just a man. I do consider it possible that he did not die on the cross, after all, he was only up there for three hours (according to some), six hours at the most (according to others). Very survivable.
- procreation is not immortality. it is physical descent.
~ living is not immortality either, in that sense, immortality would never be found since physical descent always exist in reality, a jump away from such a reality would simply be the death of every version of a person until the point of the "concrete existence" jump. Your consciousness grows, changes, and forgets. You body always changes constitution and so does your personality, it depends on matter.
Procreation is immortality not of the selfish individual but of the groupish population.
Quote:
- the tree of life was there before mankind was. your logic is flawed because
it can be turned around and said that death was not at the beginning because
it did not exist without the poisonous tree of knowledge of good and evil.
So by your (I believe wrong) rationalization: "eternal life wasn't had by man, but neither did death exist." That is a contradiction or a paradox at the very least. And calling knowledge of good and evil "poisonous" would be calling heaven and heavenly beings poisonous, since the quote from the Jewish story is "now they have become like Us, and We should fear if they eat of the tree of eternal life."
Quote:
- yhwh is/was never a "fertility and blood ritual god". they already had plenty
of those. baal, tammuz, and many others. the hebrew experience with yhwh
is in opposition to the fertility gods. here is an example of an old, some would
argue current, goddess. look at the picture of the ring. that's today's "dollar sign".
Yahweh (vowels to add shame to the evil character), is AND was a fertility and blood ritual god, but also (since the Persian salvation of the Babylonian Jews) a god of "original creation/maximal existence." Abraham interacted with Yahweh as a fertility and luck god with baby animal sacrifise and carcase designs, and Moses interacted with El-Yahweh (El was the name of the Babylonian ultimate creation diety) as a blood ritual god by sprinkling his followers with animal blood.
"Baal" means "Lord" in ancient Babylonian (to them, all Heavenly beings basically "shared" maximal existence because it is Heaven after all, and Jealously shouldn't be a part of Heaven if heaven is perfect, unless jealously can be considered "perfect" by jealous people trying to view it as NEEDED, or Correct, as Greeks did with Hera). In Cannanite, Baal was one of the youngest "children" of the ultimate Creator, and the one he set up to rule human existence (Earth? Universe?)... In Cannanite, yahwī means "creator". They were probably just trying to synchronize the local religions and local dieties to make it easier to rule a larger and more diverse population until further religious simplification could be reached.
the hebrew experience with Yahweh/El is in opposition to fertility gods, how? A fertility pact is the ultimate thing that was reached by Abraham. A war pact is the ultimate thing reached by Moses.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-02-2016 at 01:37 AM..
I get what you'e saying but I was referring to the continued existence of consciousness after physical death.
I don't consider Jesus to be God. He was just a man. I do consider it possible that he did not die on the cross, after all, he was only up there for three hours (according to some), six hours at the most (according to others). Very survivable.
How many hours does it take for a hanging body's blood to drain out of a punctured body ?_______
How can there be consciousness after physical death when the dead are Not conscious - Ecclesiastes 9:5
Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach that the dead are in a sleep-like state.
- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17 146:4; Job 14:13-15; Daniel 12:2,13 besides Ecclesiastes 9:5,10
Also, No where in Scripture did Jesus consider himself to be God.
God sent Jesus to earth. God resurrected the dead Jesus - Acts 2:27,31-32; 3:15; 13:30,37 Colossians 2:12 B
How many hours does it take for a hanging body's blood to drain out of a punctured body ?_______
How can there be consciousness after physical death when the dead are Not conscious - Ecclesiastes 9:5
Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach that the dead are in a sleep-like state.
- John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17 146:4; Job 14:13-15; Daniel 12:2,13 besides Ecclesiastes 9:5,10
Also, No where in Scripture did Jesus consider himself to be God.
God sent Jesus to earth. God resurrected the dead Jesus - Acts 2:27,31-32; 3:15; 13:30,37 Colossians 2:12 B
I'm not sure I understand the first question. To drain a dead body you have to cut the throat and hang it upside down. For a person to die on the cross - three to five days. For a person to survive crucifixion they would need to be taken down by the third day. There are known cases of people being crucified for five days and surviving but dying soon after. This being in recent times.
In the case of Josephus, three of his companions who were crucified and taken down at his request and attended to by a physician but only one survived. We do not know how long they had on the cross. Being up for three to six hours is very survivable.
As to the second question, Ecclesiastes might say one thing but did the author actually 'die' and find out? If not then his account would be meaningless. If he did 'die' and later revive and found that the time in which he was 'dead' was a complete blank then his report would have some meaning. Many (but not most) people who 'die' and revive report an experience in which they were very conscious while they were 'dead'.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
