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Original Christianity, still taught in Eastern Orthodoxy, had a different view of Christ than the Catholics
who altered original church doctrine and the Protestants who came out of Catholicism yet kept so many of the Catholic
doctrines while thinking they were radically changing Christianity.
In Eastern Orthodoxy , Christ is viewed not as a sacrifice to appease an angry God,
but the person who linked the divine God
and humans in his being , and made it possible for humans to be divine ,
albeit through their union with God.
EOs have a saying that God became a Man so that men could become gods.
In western theology sin is a crime against God that must be punished by suffering.
In EO sin is a disease that is cured by Christ.
The western versions and eastern versions start from completely different paradigms.
I can understand how our ignorant ancient ancestors
could believe those things....
That is how Christ's act of pure agape love was turned into an act of obedience
to a wrathful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices.
Hello Doc,
If a Christian were to ask you,
"Then, please explain how you see Christ's death...
especially in light of his prediction and passivity in front of Pilate; his complete lack of
easy avoidance."
Thank you. (Oh, and anyone else...wallflash?...)
The late Dr. Myles Munroe gives a whole world stage scenario...ie, why then, why in the Roman Empire...
and so on, very clear...just an aside.
I believe that completely, jimmie, that is why I have no concerns for your soul despite our disagreements I am simply non-plussed at how you can reconcile your love for Jesus with the beliefs you have about God. I can understand how our ignorant ancient ancestors could believe those things, They were certain God DID everything, even their personal decisions. They were completely controlled by the primitive obedience meme and they interpreted everything in terms of obedience. That is how Christ's act of pure agape love was turned into an act of obedience to a wrathful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices. Their confusion and ignorance is understandable. I struggle with ANY 21st-century mind accepting such absurd, primitive, and barbaric reasoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash
In Eastern Orthodoxy , Christ is viewed not as a sacrifice to appease an angry God, but the person who linked the divine God and humans in his being , and made it possible for humans to be divine , albeit through their union with God. EOs have a saying that God became a Man so that men could become gods.
This is the part that seems to evade most Christians. Children are supposed to MATURE into the same status as their parents, not into some adoring, subservient, and obedient pets.
Quote:
In western theology sin is a crime against God that must be punished by suffering. In EO sin is a disease that is cured by Christ. The western versions and eastern versions start from completely different paradigms.
That is the error. Sin is NOT a DISEASE. It is a DEFICIENCY that is endemic to spiritual immaturity. A sprout does not have the capabilities of a mature tree and it especially does not have the characteristics of a mighty Oak. Jesus is the equivalent of our species' mighty Oak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Hello Doc,
If a Christian were to ask you,
"Then, please explain how you see Christ's death...
especially in light of his prediction and passivity in front of Pilate; his complete lack of
easy avoidance."
Thank you. (Oh, and anyone else...wallflash?...)
The late Dr. Myles Munroe gives a whole world stage scenario...ie, why then, why in the Roman Empire...
and so on, very clear...just an aside.
Jesus was able to achieve in His HUMAN consciousness the pure agape love that is in perfect resonance (Identity) with God's consciousness thereby connecting ALL HUMAN consciousness permanently to God's pure agape love. His death and rebirth as Spirit made His Holy Spirit available to us all within our consciousness as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts" under the New Covenant. As an immature spiritual species, none of us could do what Jesus did. But with His guidance, we can try. Even today we struggle with achieving a very imperfect form of agape love. That is why we need to resonate with Christ's perfect agape love by loving God and each other every single day and repenting when we don't. His perfection (Grace) will cover our imperfections before God.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-30-2016 at 03:51 PM..
It appears you do not understand the words logic and essence. Holy is what God is. He cannot discard it like a garment. Jesus' redemptive work on the cross satisfied His holiness. You only need to accept that.
In that case, god is not omnipotent. He is constrained. He cannot transcend his own limitations of being judgmental and putative.
"Holy" simply means "dedicated or consecrated to a purpose". Your god, by definition, according to you, is dedicated to punishing and judging.
Besides, it would not be necessary for him to discard his purity. He could have created humans pure and incorruptible if it was such a big concern for him that they be so. The conundrum he now faces, according to you, would be his own problem.
I neither know, nor think it. But it is standard Christian theology that in heaven, there will be no sin, which means inherently that people who dwell there can't choose to sin, which means they are robots. The very condition that you decry as unacceptable for us in this life, is perfectly fine in the next.
If free will to choose good or evil is indispensable now, it's indispensable in heaven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Regardless, I desire to live righteously now. I don't anticipate that changing. I love Jesus and want to be with Him.
I desire to live virtuously now ... and if there were an afterlife I would conduct myself no differently there.
It's fine that you love Jesus and want to spend eternity with him but that has nothing to do with whether or not you value being a good moral actor and accept personal responsibility for your actions. The only righteousness that impresses me personally is demonstrably practiced by people. Not imputed, reckoned, bestowed or otherwise fudged. It's not a function of what you believe, but how you behave. To the extent that you behave well, you have my respect. Everything else is pretense.
In that case, god is not omnipotent. He is constrained. He cannot transcend his own limitations of being judgmental and putative.
"Holy" simply means "dedicated or consecrated to a purpose". Your god, by definition, according to you, is dedicated to punishing and judging.
No, He is righteous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Besides, it would not be necessary for him to discard his purity. He could have created humans pure and incorruptible if it was such a big concern for him that they be so. The conundrum he now faces, according to you, would be his own problem.
You mean like a puppet?
Last edited by Horn of ‘83; 03-30-2016 at 04:15 PM..
I neither know, nor think it. But it is standard Christian theology that in heaven, there will be no sin, which means inherently that people who dwell there can't choose to sin, which means they are robots. The very condition that you decry as unacceptable for us in this life, is perfectly fine in the next.
If free will to choose good or evil is indispensable now, it's indispensable in heaven.
You're correct, you don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
I desire to live virtuously now ... and if there were an afterlife I would conduct myself no differently there.
It's fine that you love Jesus and want to spend eternity with him but that has nothing to do with whether or not you value being a good moral actor and accept personal responsibility for your actions. The only righteousness that impresses me personally is demonstrably practiced by people. Not imputed, reckoned, bestowed or otherwise fudged. It's not a function of what you believe, but how you behave. To the extent that you behave well, you have my respect. Everything else is pretense.
It's not you that I need measure up against. It's God, which Christ did for me, because I can't.
Jimmie, can you do what ever you want when you are in heaven?
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