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Old 04-21-2016, 12:21 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,300,613 times
Reputation: 3022

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
He sure wasn't a Christian!


He was Catholic. There is no evidence that he actually cared what Christianity teaches. There is a difference. I've known devout Catholics that I have no doubt about them being in Heaven right now...but Mussolini demonstrated that he was not a Christian by his actions.

The automatic assumption that everyone who does something terrible or horrible must be an atheists is simply wrong, I am not saying you claim that but why are we debating on how terrible atheists must all be instead of why did this pastor minimize the rape of a 13 year old. The fact that Stalin was an atheists and ran a brutal regime that eliminated any oppostion to it does not mean that every action or statement from a Christian in America is excempt from all critisism.

Jeff: so many of the times that anyone here points out a wrong doing done by a Christian you dig up the past about dead people who may or may not have been an atheists and who may have done their terrible deeds for reasons that have nothing to do with religion or non religion. You have stated that you have never met an athiest who was not mean to you, you jump to the conclusion that anyone in the real world or on this forum who disagrees with you must be an atheists and you are very quick to side with any Christian who is being pointed out for their words or actions. So many of these threads get side tracked by Stalin, Hitler or some other person who has zero connection to the story.

I for one do not think the pastor should get a bye for putting some of the blame of the sexual assult onto the victim because Mussolini was a facist dictator of a very Catholic nation or Jim Jones may have used religion for his own purposes getting very religious people to kill themselves and their children.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:25 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,134,400 times
Reputation: 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
The automatic assumption that everyone who does something terrible or horrible must be an atheists is simply wrong,
Did I say that?
Quote:

I am not saying you claim that but why are we debating on how terrible atheists must all be instead of why did this pastor minimize the rape of a 13 year old. The fact that Stalin was an atheists and ran a brutal regime that eliminated any oppostion to it does not mean that every action or statement from a Christian in America is excempt from all critisism.
I'm not minimizing it. But I'm also pointing out that NOTHING in Christianity teaches such behavior. Don't blame Christianity for what some nitwit does to mistreat someone.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:32 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,300,613 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Did I say that?

I'm not minimizing it. But I'm also pointing out that NOTHING in Christianity teaches such behavior. Don't blame Christianity for what some nitwit does to mistreat someone.
I did not say that you said that , in fact I stated that you had not, however I was responding to the point that if the person did bad things he could not be a Christian.

As there is nothing about being an atheists for nitwits to mistreat someone. There is no reason to blame atheists everytime a Christian fails to live up to being a good Christian either. These statements are for people in general and not directed at you alone.

funny thing too is I think that you have the closest opinion to mine on the issue of the rapists working for the pastor

Last edited by badlander; 04-21-2016 at 01:06 PM..
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Old 04-21-2016, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,713 posts, read 2,855,736 times
Reputation: 5468
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Incidentally, cupper, since you now seem to have become the unofficial poster-boy for rape victims you might be interested in the Tyler Kost case. Kost (18) was accused of rape and sexual assault against a dozen or so separate girls and was sentenced to prison. Since then (thanks to Facebook and the loose chatter of those who participate in social media) it would appear that Kost was set-up by the alleged victims 'to teach him a lesson'. I have no idea at this time of the outcome of the investigation that these fresh revelations prompted; however, it would appear that all little girls are not necessarily 'made of sugar and spice and all things nice' after all.

https://www.fundedjustice.com/en/pro...eTylerKost2K15
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Ok I get it now, the 13 year old girl was never raped and she is the real criminal and Hopper has been the victim all along. Several females on this thread claim to have been sexually assulted as girls. Am i to believe any of them?
I respond to this post only because I do try to reply to everyone.

That said, my response is ...ridiculous!

That's it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Are you by anyway a Sicilian by background what with your superior mental abilities?
I have such superior mental abilities that I have no idea what that even means.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:18 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,300,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
I respond to this post only because I do try to reply to everyone.

That said, my response is ...ridiculous!

That's it.




I have such superior mental abilities that I have no idea what that even means.
Princess Bride
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:19 PM
 
10,077 posts, read 5,707,059 times
Reputation: 2892
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
The automatic assumption that everyone who does something terrible or horrible must be an atheists is simply wrong, I am not saying you claim that but why are we debating on how terrible atheists must all be instead of why did this pastor minimize the rape of a 13 year old. The fact that Stalin was an atheists and ran a brutal regime that eliminated any oppostion to it does not mean that every action or statement from a Christian in America is excempt from all critisism.
People like cupper and the liberal media are on a witch hunt against Christians. If there is one pastor that does something wrong, it is blown up as a HUGE story and you run it into the ground like the Duggars last year while promoting this air that atheists can never be wrong or do wrong. Someone has to show that the other side of the fence is a lot more ugly.



Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post





Jeff: so many of the times that anyone here points out a wrong doing done by a Christian you dig up the past about dead people who may or may not have been an atheists and who may have done their terrible deeds for reasons that have nothing to do with religion or non religion. You have stated that you have never met an athiest who was not mean to you, you jump to the conclusion that anyone in the real world or on this forum who disagrees with you must be an atheists and you are very quick to side with any Christian who is being pointed out for their words or actions. So many of these threads get side tracked by Stalin, Hitler or some other person who has zero connection to the story.
And so many times you and your friends turn the discussion into a direct personal attack against me which is a logical fallacy. And then you claim oh it's only me. But this very thread demonstrates how ANYONE who doesn't agree with the masses here gets pounced on harshly. Like I've said before, Christians have told me that they had to finally leave this forum because of the way they got treated.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:03 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,300,613 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
People like cupper and the liberal media are on a witch hunt against Christians. If there is one pastor that does something wrong, it is blown up as a HUGE story and you run it into the ground like the Duggars last year while promoting this air that atheists can never be wrong or do wrong. Someone has to show that the other side of the fence is a lot more ugly.





And so many times you and your friends turn the discussion into a direct personal attack against me which is a logical fallacy. And then you claim oh it's only me. But this very thread demonstrates how ANYONE who doesn't agree with the masses here gets pounced on harshly. Like I've said before, Christians have told me that they had to finally leave this forum because of the way they got treated.
And are you going to be attacking Vizio as well?

You and you alone tried to tie atheist to Mussilni or the Jonestown massacre. If you think that the way the pastor minimized the crime Hopper was convicted of is acceptable then we have to agree to disagree.

Go listen to Rick Wild, Pastor Manning, Brian Fischer or Pat Robertson if you want to hear someone attack those of other faiths or no faith.

You keep repeating that we claim that atheists can never be wrong but I have yet to read that on this forum. If you want to make proclamations expect them to be attacked if they have no basis. And you keep telling be I am attacking Christians and yet most of them I have never had any negative discourse with. I attack bad ideas. In these threads I supported the church in hiring Hopper but not with the words from the Pastor. You claim it is the liberal media, the local station in Kentucky . When do you admit that Christians can be a holes, dumb or just plain jerk just like everyone else.

As far as not hiring the convicted rapist I have disagreed with the masses and did not get pounced on harshky. Perhaps it was my argument or that I did not lay on personal insult. Look at your last sentence, another proclamation that atheists are worse than Christians and yet when have I even said that Christians behave ugly? Some d9 and s9me have terrible ideas but I will attack those ideas and actions not their religion. You just never get that.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:07 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,803 posts, read 6,259,603 times
Reputation: 5044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Did I say that?

I'm not minimizing it. But I'm also pointing out that NOTHING in Christianity teaches such behavior. Don't blame Christianity for what some nitwit does to mistreat someone.
It seems like all you care about is who gets the blame. This isn't about blame.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,713 posts, read 2,855,736 times
Reputation: 5468
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude
Many of you are misreading/misunderstanding Rom's take on this.

I'm not surprised that cupper has, but a couple of you others need to re-read with your rationality hat on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
What's there to misread? Romulus consistently uses the FUD factor to suggest that the rape victim should perhaps not get the expression of concern that she does.
I have acknowledged from the outset that the pastor put his foot in his mouth and continued to dig himself into a hole. I'm sure that he's well aware of this by now. And, the tabloid media ran with this (as they do) and created the mild hysteria that we've seen on this thread. I haven't come across this story anywhere else but here. In fact, you know what, cupper? If this 'Pastor Hires Rapist' story had not been brought up by you I would probably never have heard about it. And, it isn't because we don't get American news over here (Australia) but because it isn't a news-worthy item other than in a sensationalist tabloid media fashion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Then goes on to post about an accused who has not been to trial yet, and Romulus already has made up his mind that he is innocent.
The accused (accused of rape) had spent (at the time of the item) 12 months in prison. I thought you might have been interested as to how some girls use emotive issues (assuming they actually did this) such as this one (rape) to actually frame someone they wanted to 'teach a lesson'. And, they know that they will be believed by those such as yourself. And, apparently, they were. Even the girl who accused the young man of rape evidently claims to be in love with him. As said, this is a different slant on the subject that I thought might interest you. If these girls DID frame this young man I trust that you will be just as zealous in supporting an appropriate penalty for them as you are for the rapist . . .?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I have outlined before the horrors my daughter has relayed working with at risk girls, girls who have been forced to work the street as early as 13. I feel so sorry for the victims, the girls, and cannot understand why there are people defending the perpetrators.
What you say above has nothing to do with the subject matter. Your playing on emotion (as you seem to do all the time) does not take away from the fact that once a penalty has been paid (whatever that penalty might be as per the law of the land) a former prisoner is released into society. THAT is the way the justice system works and, for the most part, it appears to be the best an imperfect system can offer. That YOU believe a formerly convicted rapist be forever ostracized (and that a few similarly minded people on a forum site agree with you) does not amount to a hill of beans as far as THE LAW is concerned. Your vigilante attitude and that of your few forum followers has no place in a civilized society. A released prisoner has to find his way back into the community somehow. People such as you, cupper, go out of your way to make life for these people difficult. In fact, people such as yourself may well be responsible for some former prison inmates (not rapists, I realize this) TO reoffend because at least in prison they are accepted. YOU and others of like mind are a part of the problem but you don't realize this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
What I have not revealed before was I sat on a rape trial jury. As many can guess, my attitude is lock 'em up and throw away the key. It requires a unanimous decision either way to find someone guilty or not guilty in my jurisdiction. After 3 days of deliberation, we found the accused innocent.
Because the accused WAS innocent ...right? Is the above account supposed to indicate that you really are a fair minded man because you didn't convict an innocent man even though you would have liked to have done? Wow! I'm reminded of a line from a Gordon Lightfoot song ..."If I could read your mind, love, what a tale your thoughts could tell . . ."

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I am not opposed to facts, in fact, virtually always back up my threads with real links that are credible. If some can't live with that, too bad. I will never stop railing against the blame the victim in rape and sexual assault cases attitudes one sees way too much on here and in society. Don't blame the messenger, me, but blame those that commit these crimes, and those who excuse them.
But again, what you say above has nothing to do with the subject matter here. I realize that you're desperately trying to make your case but, to those of us who are actually thinking rationally, it doesn't wash. The man in question (Hopper) is a FREE man. As of now he isn't guilty of anything as per the law. And, even though he is on the Kentucky Sex Offender Registry his only restriction is that he receive permission before he can enter a school. There is no ankle bracelet. The pastor (bless his cottton pickin' soul) has EVERY RIGHT to hire this man. That you and the few others on this thread don't like this idea because you've decided that people you don't like don't deserve to live in society does not matter in the least ...other than the fact that those like you could make life unnecessarily difficult for this man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I'm disgusted that so many do.
Yeah, you've made this clearly evident from the get-go. Get over it.
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Old 04-22-2016, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,887,352 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post


But again, what you say above has nothing to do with the subject matter here. I realize that you're desperately trying to make your case but, to those of us who are actually thinking rationally, it doesn't wash. The man in question (Hopper) is a FREE man. As of now he isn't guilty of anything as per the law. And, even though he is on the Kentucky Sex Offender Registry his only restriction is that he receive permission before he can enter a school. There is no ankle bracelet. The pastor (bless his cottton pickin' soul) has EVERY RIGHT to hire this man. That you and the few others on this thread don't like this idea because you've decided that people you don't like don't deserve to live in society does not matter in the least ...other than the fact that those like you could make life unnecessarily difficult for this man.

I consider myself a 'rational thinker', so I'll poke my nose in and point a few things:

First, Hopper is a convicted felon. That doesn't magically go away once he's served his time; he is most definitely guilty, per federal law, as determined by a lawful jury.

Second, under Kentucky state law, the restrictions against Hopper are more severe than simply receiving permission to enter a school. Under Kentucky state law 17.165 (Restrictions on Employing violent offenders or persons convicted of sex crimes), he may not operate or seek employment in any registered child-care facility. His movements will be monitored by parole and probation officers; he may not own or operate a personal computer; and, like all convicted felons, he will never be permitted to own or use a firearm.

There's a difference, Romulus, between 'ostracizing' someone and being aware that they are a sex offender. I would certainly look askance at a convicted child-abuser seeking employment at my local church; considering that a church youth-group, by definition, would expose him to youth (in violation of his sex-offender status), I would protest very strongly were that the case.

If those accusing him committed perjury, then let that case go to trial so they can be punished. As it stands, the conviction was arrived at in accordance with state and Federal law.
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