If a pantheistic God were admitted to .... (contradictions, teaching, demons)
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You'll have to explain who the " we" and " us" is before I try any further to decipher all this nonsense of yours .
My position is this, and you can understand and accept it or not . Despite your claims of not answering, I've said this numerous times .
A) Pantheists are welcome to be pantheists . I don't really care . I even looked into pantheism as part of a non duality system of belief . In the end, I decided that since accepting pantheism or not made no real difference , what was the point adding unnecessary layers .
B) I reject the claim that pantheism disproves agnosticism for everyone . One pantheists experiences and understanding does not apply to across the board .
C) Your ort cloud challenge is meaningless, although how you should react to your brothers denial would differ based on his situation and how its denial would affect his life . His situation would different as a kid than it would be as an adult already established in his life and career .
And if you actually knew your astronomy well enough to " smash me with just your pinky" you would understand it's the Oort Cloud, not the ort cloud .
Perfect example of your "Acme Logic".
In the OP you propose that we work from a position that assumes everyone has admitted the Pantheist Concept that "GOD = ALL" is valid.
Now you talk about, "one Pantheists experience and understanding does not apply across the board" and "Pantheists are welcome to be Pantheists...I don't care".
What happened to the hypothetical of everyone admiitting "GOD = ALL" and what that would "mean" to them"?
You are all over the place here...saying things completely opposite the scenario YOU previously proposed that we were supposed to be working off of, and grasping at straws as you don't like the answers you get about the questions you posed.
All this does is illustrate that you start from a firm biased position, and with a completely closed mind.
You are not really looking for answers...you are just trying to set up input you can then insult from your prejudiced position.
If it were admitted, for the sake of argument , that we can define the term God so as to make the physical universe God to us , so what? How will anyone's life who makes this admission be changed in the slightest ? How would admitting that the physical universe is the source of our physical existence make the slightest difference to an agnostic or atheist ? They already admit this , they just don't term it God or use other theistic terms . So now what? What has been changed by an agnostic agreeing to use a term that simply defines what he already believes in theistic language ?
Pantheism makes the universe impersonal. Since God exists and since He has a wonderful plan for every human and being in the universe, and since He is love and loves everyone, that makes Him very personal.
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Atheism will always exist, despite the absurd pronouncements of rendering it null and void by certain posters here, because belief in the supernatural gods will exist for some, and so by definition disbelief in any supernatural gods will also exist , which is atheism .
Atheism may always exist until Christ returns but it will no longer exist when all mankind stand before God as their Saviour.
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So at the end of the day, what is the point in 1000 post threads arguing the existence or redefinition of any sort of God when the type of God being argued for is simply an insistence on the use of a theistic term for what atheists already believe about their own existence , i.e. , that it stems from the existence of the physical universe ?
I'm not so sure all atheists believe the same on matters you define above.
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Of what use , point, value, etc , is this line of pantheist argument ?
Perfect example of your "Acme Logic".
In the OP you propose that we work from a position that assumes everyone has admitted the Pantheist Concept that "GOD = ALL" is valid.
Now you talk about, "one Pantheists experience and understanding does not apply across the board" and "Pantheists are welcome to be Pantheists...I don't care".
What happened to the hypothetical of everyone admiitting "GOD = ALL" and what that would "mean" to them"?
You are all over the place here...saying things completely opposite the scenario YOU previously proposed that we were supposed to be working off of, and grasping at straws as you don't like the answers you get about the questions you posed.
All this does is illustrate that you start from a firm biased position, and with a completely closed mind.
You are not really looking for answers...you are just trying to set up input you can then insult from your prejudiced position.
This thread was created in response to yours and Mystics insistence that your pantheism eliminated atheism and atheists should just admit to your beliefs . Since you actively participated in them you are aware of this and thus your complaint here is dishonest and misleading .
Other than pointing that out, as I said, I have no further need of engaging you on anything . You have obviously exhausted your intellectual capabilities and have nothing left in the tank but meaningless sniping .
You'll have to explain who the " we" and " us" is before I try any further to decipher all this nonsense of yours .
My position is this, and you can understand and accept it or not . Despite your claims of not answering, I've said this numerous times .
A) Pantheists are welcome to be pantheists . I don't really care . I even looked into pantheism as part of a non duality system of belief . In the end, I decided that since accepting pantheism or not made no real difference , what was the point adding unnecessary layers .
B) I reject the claim that pantheism disproves agnosticism for everyone . One pantheists experiences and understanding does not apply to across the board .
C) Your ort cloud challenge is meaningless, although how you should react to your brothers denial would differ based on his situation and how its denial would affect his life . His situation would different as a kid than it would be as an adult already established in his life and career .
And if you actually knew your astronomy well enough to " smash me with just your pinky" you would understand it's the Oort Cloud, not the ort cloud .
You have an agenda and you are not a "seeker". You are out for revenge and we would have to address closure before you could even come close to having an unbiased opinion.
a) already addressed in a reasonable manor by us ... that is over.
b) you reject anything you want. You don't care what observations point to. That has been addressed.
c) Yes, it is meaningless to you because it counters your world view. Again, we have pointed out many times that you are only after what you want to be real, not what is real, or not. We did that too, about ten times.
Take your friends advice, take your ball and go home. They saw where I was going long before you did and knew your premise wouldn't hold up.
You didnt answer the question just as I predicted ... twice
This thread was created in response to yours and Mystics insistence that your pantheism eliminated atheism and atheists should just admit to your beliefs . Since you actively participated in them you are aware of this and thus your complaint here is dishonest and misleading .
Other than pointing that out, as I said, I have no further need of engaging you on anything . You have obviously exhausted your intellectual capabilities and have nothing left in the tank but meaningless sniping .
Quittin', huh?
I can see why. You can't even stay on track with your own OP.
I have plenty left...but I understand if you don't.
Of course...if Pantheism was accepted by everyone (as per your hypothetical), Atheism would no longer be valid. That is just basic reasoning and common sense.
A concept predicated and contingent upon an entity not existing...would necessarily be nullified by the known existence of that entity. Right?!
And that is the main thing accepting Pantheism (as per the hypothetical in your OP) would "mean" to Atheists. It would "mean" they could no longer logically and reasonably be Atheist! That would be quite a change, no?
Please try to stick with your own OP.
But, if you must leave...don't worry, you'll be OK. I know surrender is tough...but you will get through it I'm sure.
Hey! There is always the "Prayer Thread" to help you cope.
Unlike you , I do not run from threads. The fact that you cannot or refuse to see how my posts tie into the OP is of no concern to me . Your comprehension is lacking in so many other ways one more way is not surprising .
As I said, you have been reduced to nothing but meaningless sniping . Maybe you should just go outside and play and let the adults continue the discussion .
Quittin', huh?
I can see why. You can't even stay on track with your own OP.
I have plenty left...but I understand if you don't.
Of course...if Pantheism was accepted by everyone (as per your hypothetical), Atheism would no longer be valid. That is just basic reasoning and common sense.
A concept predicated and contingent upon an entity not existing...would necessarily be nullified by the known existence of that entity. Right?!
And that is the main thing accepting Pantheism (as per the hypothetical in your OP) would "mean" to Atheists. It would "mean" they could no longer logically and reasonably be Atheist! That would be quite a change, no?
Please try to stick with your own OP.
But, if you must leave...don't worry, you'll be OK. I know surrender is tough...but you will get through it I'm sure.
Hey! There is always the "Prayer Thread" to help you cope.
jeeze, he contradicted himself ten times and I really don't think he Knows he did.
be that as it may. Fundy-mentals, We know how they handle people that only seek the truth and only want to help other people through teaching, explaining, and using the students experience as the foundation of learning. before the internet they crucified them. Now they just disengage, change quotes, quote out of context, or post sheer volume of nonsense to keep their "faith" alive.
One group of dopes thinks it book based truth and the other think its anti-book based truth. Remember, put a dog in any room or place you want. It still acts like a dog. It has no choice; that doesn't make it "sinful"; just dangerous. Like a 'car" is dangerous. Thats what jesus meant, and I claim he may have died alright but he didn't wake up and fly away. It doesn't matter to the truth of what he said.
Unlike you , I do not run from threads. The fact that you cannot or refuse to see how my posts tie into the OP is of no concern to me . Your comprehension is lacking in so many other ways one more way is not surprising .
As I said, you have been reduced to nothing but meaningless sniping . Maybe you should just go outside and play and let the adults continue the discussion .
no, we answered your questions directly ... over and over.
Unlike you , I do not run from threads. The fact that you cannot or refuse to see how my posts tie into the OP is of no concern to me . Your comprehension is lacking in so many other ways one more way is not surprising .
I don't "run" from any thread.
I have my businesses to attend to...and the little bit of sleep I get.
I only have time for an average of a couple postings or so a day.
And there are times people crying about their hurt wittle feewings gets me kicked off the board for a time.
Your recent posts here are contradictory to your OP...your lack of concern about it notwithstanding.
But, please don't leave Mr Coyote. This is fun! MEE MEEP!!
I don't "run" from any thread.
I have my businesses to attend to...and the little bit of sleep I get.
I only have time for an average of a couple postings or so a day.
And there are times people crying about their hurt wittle feewings gets me kicked off the board for a time.
Your recent posts here are contradictory to your OP...your lack of concern about it notwithstanding.
But, please don't leave Mr Coyote. This is fun! MEE MEEP!!
Oh you've run from more than one thread. You just made excuses why you did .
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