Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I've always been sort of shocked when that answer is given.
"You're just rebelling against God."
And, most atheists and agnostics tend to try and reason through that conversation, which obviously doesn't work with people who think that. If anything is to work, ask them if they're rebelling against Allah? Or Shiva? Or whomever. They'll, rightfully so, think such a question is ridiculous and when they voice such sentiment, calmly tell them that's how you feel when they say you're rebelling against God. And if that doesn't work, you're probably best not dealing with such a close minded buffoon.
This is not another thread about the evidence or lack thereof for a god, so let's please not waste time going there . This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to believe in God is because they want to sin. Which makes no sense in and of itself . But I want to directly address this oft repeated statement .
Do theists really believe that the only reason atheists and agnostics don't believe is because they want to sin?
Can theists truly not grasp that some people simply see no evidence of a God , and certainly none that might want a person to follow a particular faith, and see no point in believing in something like this without solid evidence ?
On what basis would a theist who believes this claim that someone like Stephen Hawking just wants to sin ? What evidence would a theist have that Sam Harris's atheism is rooted in a desire to pretend God doesn't exist so he can sin without guilt ? What about Dan Barker , a former Pentecostal preacher who decided he no longer believed ? What evidence would a theist have that Dan Barker left the faith so he could sin at will?
Is the concept of simple disbelief in invisible and silent supernatural beings really this hard to grasp , that theists have to resort to these kinds of allegations ?
Maybe for some. Not for all, obviously. It may be that they don't really personally know any atheists and have never had a serious conversation with an atheist.
In my opinion, one of the reasons why some atheists/Agnostics don't believe in God is that they don't feel the need of God in their lives.
And if they think it works for them, then so be it.
It's like if a person is not thirsty, so he doesn't care what water is, or whether water exist or not.
You may be right there. I am sure I never felt the need for a god -belief or religion. The arguments came regularly but never really convinced. Oddly for reasons that I don't use now. For example, the Gospels looked unbelievable because of all the miracles. Now I know that this isn't a valid reason to reject the gospels and Jesus could have been a one -off worker of miracles. Now as a "Thinking" atheist (one who has considered the arguments) I have a much sounder reason to dismiss the gospel Jesus as invention. And there still no more need for God in my life than there is a need for Santa Claus or the Flying Spaghetti monster.
I appreciate that you seem to understand us, even if you don't agree with us.
Sigh, some Christians or theists seem to be obsessed with other people and finger pointing!
Uh, of course that's precisely what you just did... obsessing over Christians and theists and finger-pointing. There is nothing but self-ratifying rationalization to differentiate your comment from that which you criticized. You may be correct, but commiting the same offense to point that out isn't worth it.
Uh, of course that's precisely what you just did... obsessing over Christians and theists and finger-pointing. There is nothing but self-ratifying rationalization to differentiate your comment from that which you criticized. You may be correct, but commiting the same offense to point that out isn't worth it.
That is pretty pedantic. How do you point anything out without pointing it out????
This is not another thread about the evidence or lack thereof for a god, so let's please not waste time going there . This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to believe in God is because they want to sin. Which makes no sense in and of itself . But I want to directly address this oft repeated statement .
Do theists really believe that the only reason atheists and agnostics don't believe is because they want to sin?
Can theists truly not grasp that some people simply see no evidence of a God , and certainly none that might want a person to follow a particular faith, and see no point in believing in something like this without solid evidence ?
On what basis would a theist who believes this claim that someone like Stephen Hawking just wants to sin ? What evidence would a theist have that Sam Harris's atheism is rooted in a desire to pretend God doesn't exist so he can sin without guilt ? What about Dan Barker , a former Pentecostal preacher who decided he no longer believed ? What evidence would a theist have that Dan Barker left the faith so he could sin at will?
Is the concept of simple disbelief in invisible and silent supernatural beings really this hard to grasp , that theists have to resort to these kinds of allegations ?
Ok, and what proof do YOU have that ALL theists believe what you are referring to? As this is ridiculous hyper over generalization.
Also, let me ask you this. Based on your logic, why is it that atheists can not comprehend that a person may have faith into something different from what atheists believe into? As atheism is a faith too, actually.
Answer is - for same reason theists believe into what they believe into. Ultimately, there is no difference in reasons why people believe into what people believe into.
That's what people are.
This is not another thread about the evidence or lack thereof for a god, so let's please not waste time going there . This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to believe in God is because they want to sin. Which makes no sense in and of itself . But I want to directly address this oft repeated statement .
Do theists really believe that the only reason atheists and agnostics don't believe is because they want to sin?
Can theists truly not grasp that some people simply see no evidence of a God , and certainly none that might want a person to follow a particular faith, and see no point in believing in something like this without solid evidence ?
On what basis would a theist who believes this claim that someone like Stephen Hawking just wants to sin ? What evidence would a theist have that Sam Harris's atheism is rooted in a desire to pretend God doesn't exist so he can sin without guilt ? What about Dan Barker , a former Pentecostal preacher who decided he no longer believed ? What evidence would a theist have that Dan Barker left the faith so he could sin at will?
Is the concept of simple disbelief in invisible and silent supernatural beings really this hard to grasp , that theists have to resort to these kinds of allegations ?
As a former atheist, I recognize quite clearly that sin is fun, and I did not want to get involved in religion and submit to God.
So, yes--some of it is simply because an atheist chooses not to believe.
Having said that, the reason you choose not to believe is because you are in the same condition every man is born into -- your heart is deceitfully wicked (as was mine). God had to regenerate me so I could believe. If he hasn't regenerated you, it's quite easy to see why you don't believe.
And for the record, I'd avoid reading Dan Barker as if he's some kind of expert on Christianity. If I understand correctly, he worked with Katherine Kuhlman, a noted heretic. He was never really big into theology, but was instead more focused on the signs and wonders thing. When he really understood that those things were a bunch of bunk, he went atheist. He doesn't seem to have really grasped what Christianity was really all about.
Maybe for some. Not for all, obviously. It may be that they don't really personally know any atheists and have never had a serious conversation with an atheist.
This. I was raised in a Christian bubble, and I was taught that there really was no such thing as an atheist, only rebellious people who didn't want God controlling them so they told themselves there was no God.
No one I ever knew self-identified as an atheist, so I thought they must be a pretty rare breed. Then, I started encountering atheists online and I have to say, so many of them came off hostile that it rather confirmed the bias I already had that they didn't really lack belief but were just angry with God.
Then. I became aware that the bible was not infallible, and since I'd been indoctrinated with the idea that no inerrant bible = no God, I became an instant atheist. Suddenly, I understood. My lifestyle didn't change and I had no hidden desire to "sin". I was just convinced there was no God.
My position on that has swung away from atheism (though not toward a belief in the Abrahamic religions' view of God), but that experience was obviously eye-opening. I had to see it for myself to understand it.
Ok, and what proof do YOU have that ALL theists believe what you are referring to? As this is ridiculous hyper over generalization.
Did I say ALL anywhere ? Pay attention to what is actually said if you are going to participate .
Quote:
Also, let me ask you this. Based on your logic, why is it that atheists can not comprehend that a person may have faith into something different from what atheists believe into? As atheism is a faith too, actually.
Answer is - for same reason theists believe into what they believe into. Ultimately, there is no difference in reasons why people believe into what people believe into.
That's what people are.
Actually many atheists and agnostics comprehend that theists find reasons to believe .
And there is a ton of difference in believing without hard evidence and NOT believing due to a lack of hard evidence . Don't fool yourself . The two stances are in no way the same .
So to the question , do you grasp why agnostics and atheists don't believe , or does it escape you?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
