Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is not another thread about the evidence or lack thereof for a god, so let's please not waste time going there . This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to believe in God is because they want to sin. Which makes no sense in and of itself . But I want to directly address this oft repeated statement .
Do theists really believe that the only reason atheists and agnostics don't believe is because they want to sin?
Can theists truly not grasp that some people simply see no evidence of a God , and certainly none that might want a person to follow a particular faith, and see no point in believing in something like this without solid evidence ?
On what basis would a theist who believes this claim that someone like Stephen Hawking just wants to sin ? What evidence would a theist have that Sam Harris's atheism is rooted in a desire to pretend God doesn't exist so he can sin without guilt ? What about Dan Barker , a former Pentecostal preacher who decided he no longer believed ? What evidence would a theist have that Dan Barker left the faith so he could sin at will?
Is the concept of simple disbelief in invisible and silent supernatural beings really this hard to grasp , that theists have to resort to these kinds of allegations ?
Last edited by wallflash; 06-10-2016 at 11:42 PM..
There are two kinds of people I can never hope to understand: People who had happy childhoods and loving families, and people who don't believe in SOMETHING.
Just as I can never hope to wrap my mind around the concept of someone wanting to SPEND TIME WITH THEIR FAMILIES when I moved thousands of miles to get away from mine, I can never hope to understand why someone would not have some kind of something to worship.
And I am not talking about "sin" or any of that rubbish. I don't think you are all immoral and afraid of hell and just want to have gay sex or whatever some fundamentalist would believe. I just don't get not having ANYTHING to worship.
I can understand not asking something for favors, as I never ask GOD for anything material wise, but...to just go to bed at night and wake up in the morning and NOT have any ritual to do to any being or entity...
Remember that scene from Conan the Barbarian when Conan and that other guy are arguing about whose God is better, the one in the sky or the one in the Earth? How could you answer with "ah, I don't have a God..."
I am fine with atheists as long as they aren't the perpetually annoying ones who think theists are all the same, and I frankly could care less what you believe. Still, I sure as hell can't understand it. Life without a God to worship would just seem pretty dull to me.
So know, I can't really comprehend the concept of disbelief, but I do accept it. So atheism is to me like those guys who like My Little Pony erotica: I SURE CAN'T GET IT, but I'm perfectly fine with it AS LONG AS I'M NOT SUBJECTED TO IT!
There are two kinds of people I can never hope to understand: People who had happy childhoods and loving families, and people who don't believe in SOMETHING.
I would be both of those and more. I don't believe in anything and see no need or benefit. I was an unhappy child when I came to the conclusion there was no such thing as 'God'. I wouldn't say I am better off for it but before that realization I was no better either, meaning I didn't get any worse for that realization.
I cannot comprehend 'believing' in something where there is no evidence. So we would be like opposites but similar.
This is not another thread about the evidence or lack thereof for a god, so let's please not waste time going there . This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to believe in God is because they want to sin. Which makes no sense in and of itself . But I want to directly address this oft repeated statement .
Do theists really believe that the only reason atheists and agnostics don't believe is because they want to sin?
Can theists truly not grasp that some people simply see no evidence of a God , and certainly none that might want a person to follow a particular faith, and see no point in believing in something like this without solid evidence ?
On what basis would a theist who believes this claim that someone like Stephen Hawking just wants to sin ? What evidence would a theist have that Sam Harris's atheism is rooted in a desire to pretend God doesn't exist so he can sin without guilt ? What about Dan Barker , a former Pentecostal preacher who decided he no longer believed ? What evidence would a theist have that Dan Barker left the faith so he could sin at will?
Is the concept of simple disbelief in invisible and silent supernatural beings really this hard to grasp , that theists have to resort to these kinds of allegations ?
Can atheist truly not grasp that some people simply see evidence of God and want to follow a particular faith and see no point in not believing in God?
Is the concept of simple belief really this hard to grasp that atheist have to resort to less than desireable behavior, disparaging remarks and name calling?
Answer those two questions without one disparaging remark about one's faith.
There are two kinds of people I can never hope to understand: People who had happy childhoods and loving families, and people who don't believe in SOMETHING.
Just as I can never hope to wrap my mind around the concept of someone wanting to SPEND TIME WITH THEIR FAMILIES when I moved thousands of miles to get away from mine, I can never hope to understand why someone would not have some kind of something to worship.
And I am not talking about "sin" or any of that rubbish. I don't think you are all immoral and afraid of hell and just want to have gay sex or whatever some fundamentalist would believe. I just don't get not having ANYTHING to worship.
It is all about neural circuits in the brain.
A Parallel Example:
DNA wise, the majority of human beings has an innate algorithm of neural circuits that are activated sexually when exposed to various triggering stimuli from the opposite sex and internal hormones. While there are differences between the sexes and vary with ages, such an innate algorithm exists to facilitate the preservation of the human species.
However there is a percentile of human beings whose innate algorithm of these specific sexual circuits are not triggered by stimuli from the opposite sex at all, i.e. zero and they are totally indifferent to these stimuli from the opposite sex. However, they may be triggered by stimuli from the same sex or none at all.
Here is what happened with theism:
DNA wise, the majority of human beings has an innate algorithm of neural circuits of an existential dilemma which subliminally manifest psychological angst that drive them to seek solutions from something "higher" etc. to soothe that psychological itch.
There are many solutions to this, but theism at present is the most effective balm to soothe the related psychological discomfort. The fact is regardless of whether theism is true or not, what is critical is that theism works very effective and in most cases immediately - surrender and belief, viola - blue skies and everything nice!!
While the existential dilemma is resolved via theism, it creates another dilemma, i.e. how to prove God really exists. Somehow the psyche manage this via Confirmation Bias to bend theism as a truth. Alternatively the reinforcement is the claim of faith, beliefs without a need for proofs nor justifiable reasons.
From the above sexual circuit example;
What happened with non-theists is their innate algorithm of neural circuits of an existential dilemma is not activated towards theism at all. The idea of a God that exist trigger and activated nothing. They are thus indifferent towards the idea of God as a savior to deal with their existential dilemma. There are many reasons how this impulse is inhibited, but one worthwhile reason is the concept of the rational impulse that inhibit it.
For others who are not activated by the theistic stimuli, they seek other alternatives to inhibit the pulse of the innate existential dilemma, e.g. other non-theistic spiritual approaches, drugs, other occupations and distractions, etc.
One point to note is the algorithm of neural circuits of the existential dilemma is innate thus will never disappear but is merely inhibited by various inhibitors.
We know neurons atrophize with age and it is Last In First Out. Therefore it the relevant inhibitors is not strong and resilience to without the atrophy the innate existential dilemma will rear its ugly head and may drive the older person to theism.
Older People Hold Stronger Belief in God Older People Hold Stronger Belief in God | Atheism & Most Religious Countries
That was what happened to Anthony Flew the world's one time most famous atheist turned deist during his later years.
It may happen to younger people due to various reasons, e.g. experience in fox-holes, anxieties attack, spiritual crisis, etc.
The above is what is happening in the brains of theists psychologically and theists has no better choice than to be theists.
If theists understand their inner workings they may have a choice to tweak their inhibitors to avoid having to rely on faith and thus more room to enhance their rational faculty for the good of humanity.
For certain theists, what is worst when your religion influenced SOME [not all] fellow believers to killing, genocide, mass raping, committing terrible evils and violence around the world in the name of your religion.
Me? you bet I am working hard now to strengthen my inhibitors to ensure my primal existential dilemma do not dominate when I get older.
Last edited by Continuum; 06-11-2016 at 03:48 AM..
Even the living God Jesus Christ will proclaim today to His children that the reason of unbelief is the lack of conviction to sin ....... And then people like George Harrison the Beatle turned to Hindu because there is no need to have any conviction of sin
Can atheist truly not grasp that some people simply see evidence of God and want to follow a particular faith and see no point in not believing in God?
Is the concept of simple belief really this hard to grasp that atheist have to resort to less than desireable behavior, disparaging remarks and name calling?
Answer those two questions without one disparaging remark about one's faith.
Disparagement of that sort is a defense mechanism, helping deflect attention away from points that one doesn't like by making the discussion about some fabricated insult rather than addressing the matter with integrity.
If they could find a way to avoid such behavior, though, they would reasonably challenge the use of the word "evidence". In the context of an evangelical Christian, specifically, the claims put forth as evidence would not stand up to (literally) reasonable scrutiny. Such claims are an amalgam of subjective, rather than objective, observation (and therefore opinion rather than evidence), or objective observation which only supports the claim if interpreted in certain, specific, subjective ways (and again, support for the contention comes from the interpretation - the subjective interpretation - and therefore opinion, rather than evidence). The pretension that kills the legitimacy of traditional religion is its conceit that belief is (literally) reasonable. It is not. What traditional religion seems to miss is that reason is not that only legitimate grounding for perspectives. By grounding their perspectives in the wrong foundation, they miss the opportunity to legitimize those perspectives beyond the boundaries of their own adherents.
Traditional religions are easy to discredit as outlined in the previous paragraph, specifically because they try to ground their perspectives in the wrong foundation, i.e., objective reason. Liberal religion is a reflection of this unequivocal and categorical discrediting of traditional religion's irrational attachment to specific dogma. James Luther Adams cased the reality in terms of "'revelation' is continuous ... we are always learning new truths". Paradoxically, this is pretty-much the foundation of the founding of Christianity itself, the contention that revelation and truth was still being revealed (i.e., to Jesus) after Moses came down from Mount Sinai. Unfortunately, traditional flavors of Christianity forgot their own fundamental principles, and instead refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of others to do precisely what they have done.
Can atheist truly not grasp that some people simply see evidence of God and want to follow a particular faith and see no point in not believing in God?
Is the concept of simple belief really this hard to grasp that atheist have to resort to less than desireable behavior, disparaging remarks and name calling?
Answer those two questions without one disparaging remark about one's faith.
Why not answer the topic of the thread ? Did you see any disparaging comments in my OP?
Come back when you are capable of answering the questions of the OP .
This is about some statements I routinely see here suggesting
that the reason atheists and agnostics don't want to
believe in God is because they want to sin.
Oh for Pete's sake...my many atheist friends are the BEST people! Ever!
Sin?
Sigh, some Christians or theists seem to be obsessed with other people and finger pointing!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
when I moved thousands of miles to get away from mine, I can never hope to understand why someone would not have some kind of something to worship. 
