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What does 1 Cor 5:9 mean to you ? I think I have asked this a number of times without a response . Are you saying you don't accept this verse of the Bible ?
Its a good dodge question. Do you feel condemned by that verse you keep talking talking about?
Read the bold, Finn. You can think and talk all you wish, but when you justify or defend the discrimination against and mistreatment of others, then you are effectively condemning them.
I would also advice you against justifying and defending the condemnation of Christians, which you do routinely saying "amen" or giving the "thumbs-up" to insults and personal attacks. You also have a habit of attacking Christians yourself with your own words. Jesus taught to love your neighbor, which is an advice you should try to follow.
Its a good dodge question. Do you feel condemned by that verse you keep talking talking about?
It is indeed a question Christians are intent on dodging . Logically , why would I feel condemned by a verse that tells Christians not to judge others?
Why do you fear discussing a bible verse so so much ?
In fact, if you look at the thread on this verse I started here but was moved to the Christianity forum, the subject has been studiously avoided there as well . The only poster to attempt a reply has danced all around verse 12 without ever landing on it to discuss it .
Christians apparently don't like discussion on a verse that tells them not to judge those outside their church . Evidently, from reactions like yours in this thread, this is simply something conservative Christians intend to keep doing, and will ignore verses that might instruct them to feel differently on the issue.
Last edited by wallflash; 06-22-2016 at 05:55 AM..
I went to mass for the first time in a few months that Sunday. It was the 930 mass so the story had already erupted. When I go, it's just a normal Catholic community. Besides many people crying, it was a very truncated mass. Father T said so right up front: anyone who wants to stay after, welcome. But I'm skipping to the homily and Eucharist and we'll cut things short. I'll paraphrase but it stuck with me:
Brothers, sisters we gather here today in a time of great sorrow. Normally we celebrate life in Christ. Today, we mourn in neighbors death. This tragedy, I don't have the words to express the horror, the anger, the sadness I know everyone feels. Such senseless taking of life is utterly unnecessary. However, it is a dangerous world. There are real enemies. Not just to Americans, but to humanity. Let us pray for the shooter. Facts will say what happened, and why. Let us not jump to the conclusion and blame our brothers and sisters of other faiths. It is not us vs them. It is US, in love, vs those who know only hate.
Pause
I know the church's stance historically on same gender attraction. I know the stereotype. Do we want to still embody that? No. I've talked to many of you. You've expressed what is in your heart. Yes there was ignorance in the past, and we may not agree on who one loves, but that does not mean we can't love them. I say to you, the lgbt community is not living in sin. We should not try to ask why, we should embrace as we do all of our brothers and sisters. To our lgbt parishioners, you are welcome now, out, or not, with nothing but the love we have always shown you. Personally, I don't think Jesus cared who we loved, as long as that love is in your heart. We will ring this bell 49 times in silence. Go with Jesus and live in your heart.
Eucharist
Dismiss
Pretty much hit how I've always felt, and expressed myself, to a T.
Why do Christians think they have the right to condemn non Christians ?
I can only guess that the type of Christian who does do this (and I guess we all know many of them do not) do so because they think their right to do so is derived from the creator of the universe being on their side.
However I do not think they require that. Merely having free speech is enough to have the "right" to "condemn" another human being. At least if we are using the definition of "condemn" as "express complete disapproval of; censure".
So EVERYONE has that right. So my issue would not be with people who think they have that right..... but with people who think they have MORE right to it than anyone else.
We see a small example of that often on forums like this very one when people engage in the "I have the right to my opinion" narrative. Almost invariably when you hear someone drop into that rhetoric they are doing it in response to a rebuttal or negative appraisal of their views.
So all too often (nearly always) when I see "I have a right to my opinion" the user is actually saying "I feel I should have the right to express my opinion here, without anyone, least of all me, having to see your response to it".
Or put more simply..... those shouting about their right to an opinion are usually doing so to decry your right to yours.
Conservative Christians certainly have the right to free speech like everyone else, any restraints on that would come internally from their own belief and doctrine . What is so hilariously hypocritical about it all is that the Bible they quote to condemn others tells them specifically NOT to concern themselves with those outside the church .
So then they come up with the ruse that when they point out how immoral , vile, and sinful those whose lives aren't lived according to their rules are , they are not really condemning them but just discussing what the Bible says .
And they probably manage to make themselves believe it . It's why there are 10,000 sects . Take what you want from the Bible , ignore what you don't like . In this case , ignore the teaching to not worry about or condemn those outside the church . This is why it's hard to have any respect for conservative " I'll interpret it how it fits my needs" Christianity .
It is indeed a question Christians are intent on dodging . Logically , why would I feel condemned by a verse that tells Christians not to judge others?
Cool, so why do you keep asking about it? The Bible teaches God will judge those outside of the faith. Too bad, those outside the faith won't return the favor, but then again, Jesus said they would be hated for His name. It is what it is.
Why do non Christians feel they have the right to condemn Christians?
Every question you present specifically toward Christians can be changed to Non Christian because the behavior is the same.
Why do non Christians feel they have the right to condemn Christians?
Every question you present specifically toward Christians can be changed to Non Christian because the behavior is the same.
If you ever find yourself mature enough and capable enough to answer the questions of the OPs you voluntarily choose to go into , and THEN ask rebuttal questions , we might could have a discussion . This is the second thread I have seen you come into that you wanted to participate but found yourself incapable of being courteous enough to answer the question of the OP first . It seems you just want to deflect from a thorny problem for you .
And thanks for the book recommendation . I might read it . I have read numerous books by Christians, and am currently considering reading Francis Collins book on God and science . Unlike most theists , I can consider all possibilities without fear . Were I to suggest a book by Dan Barker about leaving Christianity , or one by Richard Dawkins , I have little doubt you would refuse to consider reading them . That highlights an important difference between us . Information from all sides is welcome to me . Only info that supports your beliefs is welcome to you , if you are like most conservative Christians .
Last edited by wallflash; 06-22-2016 at 07:52 AM..
Cool, so why do you keep asking about it? The Bible teaches God will judge those outside of the faith. Too bad, those outside the faith won't return the favor, but then again, Jesus said they would be hated for His name. It is what it is.
I keep asking because although the subject scares you, you are not the only Christian posting here . If no Christian has the courage to address this verse and its implications for Christians, then that itself says something about those Christians and their desire to be judgemental of those outside the church vs following their own biblical teaching not to do that .
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