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If you cannot see the selfish barbarism in the concept, you seriously need to elevate your consciousness and sense of love for all life.
that would be another sign of spiritual maturity
our list is getting longer
the ability to discuss your own path to the Divine without ridiculing others
great topic, by the way "spiritual maturity" thanks for introducing it Mystic
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-30-2016 at 11:16 PM..
Speaking for myself and not nate, I would say he is referring to the culture that actually believed God needed to be appeased by the yearly slaughter of innocent animals and obedience to rigid religious laws. If you cannot see the selfish barbarism in the concept, you seriously need to elevate your consciousness and sense of love for all life.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
that would be another sign of spiritual maturity
Yes, elevating your consciousness and sense of love for all life would be. So, why aren't you making an effort to objectively evaluate what you actually believe about God and what He wants from us and what His true nature IS?
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the ability to discuss your own path to the Divine without ridiculing others
You need to stop taking objective criticism and evaluation of your beliefs as ridicule. There is plenty of real ridicule to go araound without creating more by erroneous inference.
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great topic, by the way "spiritual maturity" thanks for introducing it Mystic
Yes it is. You are welcome. It is what our life is all about.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-01-2016 at 12:45 AM..
So, why aren't you making an effort to objectively evaluate what you actually believe about God and what He wants from us and what His true nature IS?
you are not a spokesperson for God
in the tradition that I follow, those who show the way to drawing close to God exude kindness and respect and light and dignity in their words and in how they treat others. in the tradition that i follow, God can not abide in the same place where there is arrogance and condescension [="an attitude of patronizing superiority; disdain"]. that is how we recognize what is authentic.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 07-01-2016 at 12:37 AM..
Yes, elevating your consciousness and sense of love for all life would be. So, why aren't you making an effort to objectively evaluate what you actually believe about God and what He wants from us and what His true nature IS? You need to stop taking objective criticism and evaluation of your beliefs as ridicule. There is plenty of real ridicule to go around without creating more by erroneous inference.Yes it is. You are welcome. It is what our life is all about.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
you are not a spokesperson for God
That is true and I never profess to be. I witness to my understanding and defend it from criticism without malice.
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in the tradition that I follow, those who show the way to drawing close to God exude kindness and respect and light and dignity in their words and in how they treat others. in the tradition that i follow, God can not abide in the same place where there is arrogance and condescension [="an attitude of patronizing superiority; disdain"]. that is how we recognize what is authentic.
That actually could be one explanation for the tenaciousness of such barbaric ideas about God. The Jewish people exude such kindness and respect that the beliefs themselves have never really been questioned or challenged objectively. Apparently, you need at least one crass, disdainful, condescending, arrogant scum to pretend to be kind and respectful enough to infiltrate and bring your otherwise intransigent beliefs into the 21st century. Clearly, I am not the one.
So far, I have not seen any rational defense of the approach mentioned in the OP that "God said it so just do it," but some good examples of why it is not a good way to look at our relationship in community.
The closest to a rational defense of the idea is that there could be some reasons for a particular proscription of which we are not aware. This is a possibility, but certainly not a rational basis for imposing a prohibition on general society even if one refrains from the prohibited activity himself.....and yet it seems to be a major element in people's urging of laws or the repealing of laws affecting that prohibition. Where are those people who say "God said it so it is wrong" in this discussion?
Last edited by nateswift; 07-01-2016 at 07:25 AM..
he seems very concerned that food choices are being imposed, and i am just curious where he experiences or sees that happening?
I don't think anything he says implies he's personally having food choices imposed on him. His whole point is that religious rules ARE imposed on some. While one can argue that people voluntarily join a particular sect (or not), it has been my experience that not everyone feels free to leave. Some are born to it, and leave at the cost of losing extended family ties and approval for example. And of course there is always the concern of displeasing god.
What interests me most about the "God said it" approach is the idea that God would declare something wrong or "abominable" apparently on a whim: no rationale needed or used. The "might is right" approach if you look at it. What is most interesting is the insane extremes this can be carried to as in the current requirement in Jewish culture that meat and dairy have NO chance of mixing.... based on the prohibition against seething a kid in its mother's milk. Even a superficial look at that prohibition with the idea of finding a reason should indicate that it is a specific example of black magic or necromancy practiced in Canaan of the time, and the idea is to refrain from such magic (the use of magic or formulae to obtain benefits is an insult to the grace of God, but that's another subject). I'd say that mindless following of the formula prohibiting meat and dairy is a form of the magic the original prohibition was intended to curtail.
Deut 14:21
Ye shall not eat spoiled meat: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for you art an holy people unto the Lord thy God.
You shalt not coagulate curds in people's milk.
You shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Exodus 23:17
Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord God.
You shalt not offer the juice of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the milkfat of my sacrifice remain until the morning.
The best of the firstfruits of thy land you shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God.
You shalt not coagulate curds in people's milk.
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exodus 34:23
Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.
For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.
You shalt not offer the juice of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
The best of the firstfruits of thy land you shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.
You shalt not coagulate curds in people's milk.
And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights
The Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon him so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a curd (cheese)
Then shalt thou go on forward from thence, and thou shalt come to the plain of Tabor, and there shall meet thee three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three curds (cheeses), and another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a bottle of wine:
bread, wine, and cheese. All made with microorganisms
Just answer his question. He has joined the discussion and presented his assessment of it so far.
I already answered.
He wanted to talk about the "REASONS" - and I asked him, tell me the reason of your birth? He doesn't seem to have an answer, yet he thinks he has got it all figured out.
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