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The site doesn't care whether a customer is straight or gay . That's the point, and you defeat your own argument here. The site merely sells a service , but the service it sells isn't one that gays want . So now we have made NOT selling a product a minority wants into discrimination . That's idiotic .
Let's return to the strip club question most everyone ignores . Give me an answer on this . Should gays be able to go to a strip club and demand the place offer male strippers on equal stage time as women strippers? Yes or no? Let's not beat around the bush and avoid the difficult questions here . Which is it ? Currently a product gay men might want is not offered at these places except on special occasions like ladies night , which is NOT intended to draw in gays but heterosexual women . Discrimination or not ?
Good question. I shall be interested to see the responses. The bottom line is of course, which way the law swings if it goes to court (pending appeals and overturnings) I should have said that they should not legally be able to refuse on religious grounds. They could in principle offer gay strip nights. Maybe once a year just to see whether it pays or not. If it does...well Gay dollars buy as much as hetero ones. And the problem with lesbian night would be women not being able to get into a bar crowded with men, even prior to happy hour.
But if it didn't pay, they would have a case to say: 'there isn't the demand'. Now, Gays may be able to take them to court insisting that they put on a money - losing gay strip show equally with women strippers (and can't you just hear the screams of anger from the Bible-based gay -hate lobby?) or face penalties under the anti -discrimination law.
But not being able to make money ou of it and evidence that they couldn't would make a good case. And as we saw with the Kim Davis case, compromise with the strict letter of the law seems to be as admirable bit of wiggle -room.
So the only ones to go down would be the owners of a Christian strip bar, where Jack Chick tracts get stuffed into the garters or whatever and the Mc leers "Ah feel good, cause ah know there's a Gawd" as the frillies sail through the air, but who refuse to even put on a token gay strip once a year or by arrangement with the Gay community to put on a convention with a sufficiency of paying gays rolling up to fill the car-parl with pink charabancs on the grounds that Moses and Paul wouldn't like it.
And if they went to jail I don't know who would be holding them up as martyrs for Jesus.
Why would gays want to be on this website? To cause trouble, no other reason. They have their own dating websites, but some just want to cause trouble.
Nobody is answering your question because it is a terrible analogy that makes no sense.
Here's a better one.
Christian Mingle has pull-down options for race.
Oh, but they don't include black people. Just white or hispanic.
So no black people can use the CM?
Nonsense . What makes it so terrible to you is you have no answer for my question . Which shows the weakness of your position . Your analogy is flawed because a race distinction WOULD deny a person buying a service that the site sells . If a black man wants to date white or Hispanic women , then you are telling him he cannot . It's not that you don't have white or Hispanic women on the site looking for men, you do. But you want to tell him he cannot get a product from you that white or Hispanic men can .
With gays , the site does not HAVE gay men . So you are not denying them something you allow others to buy , you simply don't sell what the gay guy wants to buy , so to speak .
There is a fundamental difference between the two issues, illustrated by the strip club analogy nobody , including you , has the courage to address .
BTW, does it concern you that there are black only dating sites ? I have little doubt from your example that you would be outraged by a whites only dating site , but what about black only dating sites ? Should we start shutting them down as discriminatory should whites complain ? After all , some white people like dating black people .
Nonsense . What makes it so terrible to you is you have no answer for my question . Which shows the weakness of your position . Your analogy is flawed because stout race distinction WOULD deny a person buying a service that the site sells . If a black man wants to date white or Hispanic women , then you are telling him he cannot . It's not that you don't have white or Hispanic women on the site looking for men, you do. But you want to tell him he cannot get that product from you that white or Hispanic men can .
With gays , the site does not HAVE gay men . So you are not denying them something you allow others to buy , you simply don't sell what the gay guy wants to buy , so to speak .
There is a fundamental difference between the two issues, illustrated by the strip club analogy nobody has the courage to address .
BTW, does it concern you that there are black only dating sites ? I have little doubt from your example that you would be outraged by a whites only dating site , but what about black only dating sites ? Should we start shutting hem down as discriminatory should whites complain ? After all , some white people like dating black people .
I personally am not outraged by anything to do with something as stupid as dating sites.
As I said before, I agree with your premise that anyone should be able to offer a product that anyone else can buy, but they should not be beholden to make it work or tailor it specifically to any one person or group. For example, if I want to sell Kerflukenflunkers and I make them so they're basically only useful to right-handed people, that's my business. If a left-handed person can't use a Handy Dandy Stan4 Kerflukenflunker (patent pending), the govt has no business telling me I have to start producing them.
I disagree with your nutty assertion that because a site caters to Christians, it automatically means it doesn't or shouldn't include gay people. That makes zero sense.
I personally am not outraged by anything to do with something as stupid as dating sites.
As I said before, I agree with your premise that anyone should be able to offer a product that anyone else can buy, but they should not be beholden to make it work or tailor it specifically to any one person or group. For example, if I want to sell Kerflukenflunkers and I make them so they're basically only useful to right-handed people, that's my business. If a left-handed person can't use a Handy Dandy Stan4 Kerflukenflunker (patent pending), the govt has no business telling me I have to start producing them.
I disagree with your nutty assertion that because a site caters to Christians, it automatically means it doesn't or shouldn't include gay people. That makes zero sense.
I didn't make the assertion that because a site is Christian it shouldn't or doesn't include gays . Please don't put words in my mouth . I said the site was Christian , and that if they chose not to facilitate gay encounters that should be their choice . Please take my entire paragraph in context when reading my words . Nothing in that asserts that there is no such thing as a gay Christian .
Nonsense . What makes it so terrible to you is you have no answer for my question . Which shows the weakness of your position . Your analogy is flawed because a race distinction WOULD deny a person buying a service that the site sells . If a black man wants to date white or Hispanic women , then you are telling him he cannot . It's not that you don't have white or Hispanic women on the site looking for men, you do. But you want to tell him he cannot get a product from you that white or Hispanic men can .
With gays , the site does not HAVE gay men . So you are not denying them something you allow others to buy , you simply don't sell what the gay guy wants to buy , so to speak .
There is a fundamental difference between the two issues, illustrated by the strip club analogy nobody , including you , has the courage to address .
BTW, does it concern you that there are black only dating sites ? I have little doubt from your example that you would be outraged by a whites only dating site , but what about black only dating sites ? Should we start shutting them down as discriminatory should whites complain ? After all , some white people like dating black people .
Your questions are legit.
Your argument is sound.
Don't agree with you much...fully concur with the points you make here.
Good question. I shall be interested to see the responses. The bottom line is of course, which way the law swings if it goes to court (pending appeals and overturnings) I should have said that they should not legally be able to refuse on religious grounds. They could in principle offer gay strip nights. Maybe once a year just to see whether it pays or not. If it does...well Gay dollars buy as much as hetero ones. And the problem with lesbian night would be women not being able to get into a bar crowded with men, even prior to happy hour.
But if it didn't pay, they would have a case to say: 'there isn't the demand'. Now, Gays may be able to take them to court insisting that they put on a money - losing gay strip show equally with women strippers (and can't you just hear the screams of anger from the Bible-based gay -hate lobby?) or face penalties under the anti -discrimination law.
But not being able to make money ou of it and evidence that they couldn't would make a good case. And as we saw with the Kim Davis case, compromise with the strict letter of the law seems to be as admirable bit of wiggle -room.
So the only ones to go down would be the owners of a Christian strip bar, where Jack Chick tracts get stuffed into the garters or whatever and the Mc leers "Ah feel good, cause ah know there's a Gawd" as the frillies sail through the air, but who refuse to even put on a token gay strip once a year or by arrangement with the Gay community to put on a convention with a sufficiency of paying gays rolling up to fill the car-parl with pink charabancs on the grounds that Moses and Paul wouldn't like it.
And if they went to jail I don't know who would be holding them up as martyrs for Jesus.
The thing here is that I'm not trying to make this a religious thing . I simply believe this is not discrimination because the seller didn't offer what the buyer wanted . Therefore , go somewhere that DOES offer what you want instead of insisting a business change its product line to suit you . There is nothing religious about this, even though this started as a Christian thing by the OP .
IOW, my objections are not religious based , but private business rights based .
Why would gays want to be on this website? To cause trouble, no other reason. They have their own dating websites, but some just want to cause trouble.
Christian Mingle is a publicly traded company. That means they must service those gay Christian troublemakers, too.
Fair enough...but this is the religion forum, so we can reasonably expect a religious dimension.
That said, what the law decide (as I think I said) subject to appeal, is the precedent. If there is good reasons not to offer a product - no demand/no profit, for example - then the Law might say that is ok. They may even agree with them simply not offering Gay strippers, any more than The RSC should give one LBTG play for every Hetero one.
Offering Gay strippers or indeed male strippers for women involved providing a venue and a change of routine.Money is involved and potential loss.
In a dating site, what loss is there in allowing Same sex couples to use it? Well I can't recall why, but reasonably they should have said "Oh, we didn't think of that..Ok." Problem solved.
The problem being ongoing suggests that someone is stalling and it is hard to think why other than dislike of Gays, and it is hard to think of any reason for that other than Reayalliggion.
Your opinion of how easy or hard it would be is irrelevant . It is not your place , and should not be the governments place in a free country , to dictate to a private business what products it has to sell . They chose not to offer gay dating . That should settle it, just like black dating sites are free to cater to blacks and gay dating sites are free to cater to gays .
They don't offer any dating; what they offer is a site.
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