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Old 07-16-2016, 04:25 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 2,281,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Well, I think the bottom line is that, while the law itself is unclear as to whether judges are assigned marriage duties HAVE to officiate over gay weddings, there is one thing that is very clear:

Judges are required to adhere to the Code of Judicial Conduct -- and that means they must discharge their duties, including officiating over weddings, without bias or prejudice.

IF judges must perform marriages, they have to perform ALL marriages. They can't pick and choose, electing to marry straight people but not gay people since that would be a clear violation of the Code of Judicial Conduct.

However, I'm fairly certain that judges and justices are not actually required to officiate over weddings. I'm fairly certain they simply have the legal authority to do so ... but it is still their choice whether to do so or not.

Which means that a judge or justice will have to decide to either perform no weddings or perform all weddings. Regardless of anything else, he/she cannot pick and choose which legal marriages over which to officiate.


Where do you see a statute making it illegal for a judge to be selective in which marriages he performs ?
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:24 AM
 
Location: louisville
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I'll say, people read a headline, not the body.

Such it is for politics, law, and whatever this forum is supposed to be.
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:26 AM
 
Location: louisville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
Where do you see a statute making it illegal for a judge to be selective in which marriages he performs ?
For what it's worth, I posted the entire KRS statutes as it relates to marriage. Those who solemnize weddings are performing a ceremony, only. The county clerk actually has the legal portion... hence why Kim Davis got in trouble.
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Old 07-17-2016, 04:13 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,086 posts, read 20,687,859 times
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Could be. Here it is not generally realized that church weddings are not the 'Legal' bit and the legal bit is done off behind a curtain (1). So perhaps that is why the Churches can be offered a choice but the registrar has to do the job they are paid to do.

(1) as a kid I asked my parents (on the rare occasions we went to a wedding) "What are they doing in there?" and was told "Mind your own business". Until I was actually a witness, I had unutterable ideas about it.
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Old 07-17-2016, 04:34 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,630,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
I put the law up there for you.

Those who 'solemnize' a marriage are merely performing the ceremony. That's it.

The county clerks in the state of KY are those who actually legalize a marriage.

Judges, RETIRED JUDGES, justice of the peace, any ordained minister of any denomination or religion, pagans... all you have to do is apply. It's a private thing. All legalities are done by the county clerks office... hence why Kim Davis got in trouble.

Read the article, but if you want the legalities of why this judge came out this way, read the KRS Statutes, starting on 402.05.

I can apply to solemnize a wedding and then conduct the wedding any way I want. It's akin to going to Vegas and getting married by Elvis.
If I go to the county clerk's office and say I want a civil ceremony, how is the presiding judge a "private thing"? The couple don't want a religious ceremony; that's why they arranged for a civil ceremony through the county clerk's office. What right does a government official have to tell the couple "Sorry, you will have a religious ceremony because my religious convictions trump yours"?

A couple with a marriage license are not legally married. If they decide not to follow through, they do not require a divorce or an annulment.
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:05 PM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,736,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
If I go to the county clerk's office and say I want a civil ceremony, how is the presiding judge a "private thing"? The couple don't want a religious ceremony; that's why they arranged for a civil ceremony through the county clerk's office. What right does a government official have to tell the couple "Sorry, you will have a religious ceremony because my religious convictions trump yours"?

A couple with a marriage license are not legally married. If they decide not to follow through, they do not require a divorce or an annulment.
Because the ceremony is not legally binding...

And you didn't outline the procedure. You apply for a marriage license, then it is signed. Read the statute: it does not require a ceremony, only 2 witnesses.

Additionally, what legal office do priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, pagans, or RETIRED JUDGES hold? None. They are not officers of the court.

Some would do very poorly in presenting legal rationing based off existing statutes.

To make it even easier to see the process.... Here is a link to Jefferson county/louisvilles, steps. This county has 50% of the states population.

http://www.jeffersoncountyclerk.org/...icense-faq.asp

Last edited by Stymie13; 07-17-2016 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:22 PM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,736,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
If I go to the county clerk's office and say I want a civil ceremony, how is the presiding judge a "private thing"? The couple don't want a religious ceremony; that's why they arranged for a civil ceremony through the county clerk's office. What right does a government official have to tell the couple "Sorry, you will have a religious ceremony because my religious convictions trump yours"?

A couple with a marriage license are not legally married. If they decide not to follow through, they do not require a divorce or an annulment.
And again, incorrect on your last point. License is granted within 30 days AFTER you inform the clerks office.

You are referring to the marriage APPLICATION.
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Old 07-17-2016, 06:45 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,630,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
Because the ceremony is not legally binding...

And you didn't outline the procedure. You apply for a marriage license, then it is signed. Read the statute: it does not require a ceremony, only 2 witnesses.

Additionally, what legal office do priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, pagans, or RETIRED JUDGES hold? None. They are not officers of the court.

Some would do very poorly in presenting legal rationing based off existing statutes.

To make it even easier to see the process.... Here is a link to Jefferson county/louisvilles, steps. This county has 50% of the states population.

Marriage License FAQ
From your own link, under "Prohibited and Restricted Marriages"

Quote:
Marriages not solemnized or contracted in the presence of an authorized person or society.
Did you read the linked article? The couple in question did not seek out a priest, minister, rabbi, imam, pagan, or retired judge. Rather, they sought a civil ceremony in the local court house. Another article I found stated that they have another ceremony planned, to be officiated by a friend who has no legal standing to officiate. Because they want their marriage to be legal, they sought to be legally married at the local court house. Apparently, there was no other judge in Trigg county to officiate because the judge advised them to go to another county.

Kentucky Judge Refuses to Conduct Secular Wedding Ceremony for Couple
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Old 07-17-2016, 06:48 PM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,630,968 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
And again, incorrect on your last point. License is granted within 30 days AFTER you inform the clerks office.

You are referring to the marriage APPLICATION.
Not according to the link you posted.

Quote:
Q: Who Issues Marriage Licenses?
A: The county clerk issues marriage licenses.
Marriage licenses are valid for 30 days, including the date it is issued, and after that time it is invalid. Therefore, if the marriage is not solemnized within the 30-day period, the parties must apply for a new license.
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Old 07-17-2016, 06:54 PM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,180,832 times
Reputation: 2017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
From your own link, under "Prohibited and Restricted Marriages"



Did you read the linked article? The couple in question did not seek out a priest, minister, rabbi, imam, pagan, or retired judge. Rather, they sought a civil ceremony in the local court house. Another article I found stated that they have another ceremony planned, to be officiated by a friend who has no legal standing to officiate. Because they want their marriage to be legal, they sought to be legally married at the local court house. Apparently, there was no other judge in Trigg county to officiate because the judge advised them to go to another county.

Kentucky Judge Refuses to Conduct Secular Wedding Ceremony for Couple
A couple is not restricted from going to another county. Honestly....you can't get a judge to sanction your pet sin? Go find another. You don't have a right to demand others validate your lifestyle.
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