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I want to sincerely say I appreciate you taking the time and effort for such a lengthy, substantive reply. It deserves more reflection than I have given it, and I am just squeezed for time, but ultimately what I am left feeling, from your scenario, is that we humans are just puppets, dragged into a life with a foregone outcome for apparently no other reason than the amusement of some being vastly greater than us.
This could be true, this could be wrong - who knows? but that doesn't bother me. My philosophy remains the same. Since we are here, lets deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
He'll let the flies in jar #2 buzz around a bit--get the feel for what it means to be a fly, might even be impressed by their flying abilities, etc., but in the end there's nothing they can do--he's gonna pull those wings off anyway.
Not all flies will have their wings pulled off, remember? Some flies will have their wings pulled. And some would enjoy flying.
If there is hell, then there is also heaven. If there is punishment and then there is also reward for the effort.
Good deeds and good efforts will be rewarded. That's the promise of God. You already forgot this part from my post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
Again I am left feeling that life without such a being has more meaning and purpose, and there is nothing whatsoever about this being that would elicit in me feelings of love, respect, awe, etc. I'd just be that fly in a jar waiting for some pubescent kid to yank off my wings. I say, no thank you.
That's perfectly fine. That's your understanding and that's a free choice of your's to make. And I don't have a problem with it.
I guess the question is, would your saying "no" will actually stop the kid from yanking your wings? Will you be able to overpower the kid?
I have 'faith', that gives me 'hope', something that a non-believer does not have.
I have hope about a bajillion things, LOL. What on earth are you talking about?
Right now, I hope that my violin teacher will be impressed tomorrow with the progress I'm making and will move me along to Bach Minuet No. 2. I hope we will have an amazing time on vacation the week after next. I hope my son's friend can come over next week as we had loosely planned so they can keep developing their friendship (they're both autistic so there's a learning curve there). I hope I get some great classes this semester and I hope I learn a ton from them and achieve decent grades. I hope my kids will have a great school year and keep moving forward and keep making friends. I hope my son's new girlfriend is good to him. I hope my cats stay healthy and keep loving to play. I hope things will get better for certain groups globally that I worry about all the time. I hope the coming election will ultimately yield more good than harm. I hope in the future we'll make more and more advances in science and particularly in medicine. I hope more info comes out about string theory as for some reason I find it totally fascinating. I hope more people who plan to abuse or to commit crimes will develop some empathy and begin to change for the better, particularly in the face of more and more awareness in these areas. I hope about a bajillion things and am optimistic about them.
It's kind of Bizarro World that we seem to be sitting here defending the "fairness" and "benevolence" of something that would THROW FREAKIN' HUMAN BEINGS INTO A FIRE.
Will God throw some humans into fire? Probably yes.
Why?
Because he can.
And we cannot do anything about it.
Will God enter some humans into Paradise? Probably yes.
Why?
Because he can.
And we cannot do anything about it.
God is the absolute owner and creator of everything, and he is not answerable to anybody. And this is what makes him God.
He does, and he can do, whatever he wants to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
I'm sorry, I'm not buying what you're selling, folks.
I totally agree with you here. You should "NEVER' buy into it.
The call to faith must come from within. If your heart does not want to believe that there is a God out there, then stick to your ideas and live the life the way you want to live.
This is a choice to make. There is no buying or selling pitch.
And in the end, we will be responsible for our choices.
This could be true, this could be wrong - who knows? but that doesn't bother me. My philosophy remains the same. Since we are here, lets deal with it.
I don't know how to say some of what I want to say with you without sounding d!ckish, which isn't my intent, but to this Id just say "I AM dealing with it." I just deal with it without thoughts of deities. I still have fun, like to experience light and joy, and spread those things, show love for my loved ones, help those I can who need help, etc.
For me, adding gods into the mix doesn't improve anything. there's no benefit and at base I just don't happen to believe in them (I could be wrong!)
Quote:
Not all flies will have their wings pulled off, remember? Some flies will have their wings pulled. And some would enjoy flying.
If there is hell, then there is also heaven. If there is punishment and then there is also reward for the effort.
Good deeds and good efforts will be rewarded. That's the promise of God. You already forgot this part from my post?
I didn't forget; I'm just left with feeling it's ultimately pointless. "Whatever I do, I'm either bound for Paradise or for Hell...guess I'll enjoy the ride, but no matter what I do, I may end up in Hell, and only this Great Being knows for sure."
Quote:
I guess the question is, would your saying "no" will actually stop the kid from yanking your wings? Will you be able to overpower the kid?
Probably not, but my attitude would be akin to: "Eff this stupid kid. Until my time's up, gonna do whatever I feel like doing."
I have hope about a bajillion things, LOL. What on earth are you talking about?
No matter what you have, you WILL lose it when the last curtain falls on your eyes. Your home, your car, your job, your clothes, your wealth, your gold, your silver, your family, your education ... you name it, and you will lose it.
"By time,
Verily Man is in loss,
Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience."
Quran 103
So if there is a God out there then we have a soul.
And the soul of a believer will have faith and hope when the last curtain falls on his eyes.
God is the absolute owner and creator of everything, and he is not answerable to anybody. And this is what makes him God. He does, and he can do, whatever he wants to do.
Sure, in a scenario in which there is an all-knowing, all-powerful God (which of course I just don't happen to believe in.) But frankly the guy sounds like a real a-h@le.
No matter what you have, you WILL lose it when the last curtain falls on your eyes. Your home, your car, your job, your clothes, your wealth, your gold, your silver, your family, your education ... you name it, and you will lose it.
So will you. BTW, I don't know if I mentioned a single material thing that I currently hope for, LOL, yet you mentioned all material things except for family and education...hmmm. Are believers' hopes more materialistic in this way, generally? Because wealth and gold and cars certainly weren't the first things to come to mind with "hope"...actually, they didn't come to mind at all until you mentioned them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
And if there is a God out there then we have a soul.
And the soul of a believer will have faith and hope when the last curtain falls on his eyes.
I will continue to have faith and hope for the future, for those going on living when the last curtain falls on my eyes. So nope. Wrong. I still won't be without hope. Pretty much ever, actually.
So your original statement that non-religious people don't have hope, to wit:
Quote:
I have 'faith', that gives me 'hope', something that a non-believer does not have
...continues to be false.
Quote:
Will God throw some humans into fire? Probably yes.
Why?
Because he can.
And we cannot do anything about it.
Oh well now THERE'S a creature anyone can love.
Quote:
The call to faith must come from within. If your heart does not want to believe that there is a God out there, then stick to your ideas and live the life the way you want to live.
Okay. I didn't need your permission to do this, though.
Sure, in a scenario in which there is an all-knowing, all-powerful God (which of course I just don't happen to believe in.) But frankly the guy sounds like a real a-h@le.
In my opinion, I would have agreed with you if God had created me, and then he had immediately tossed me straight into hell fire.
So will you. BTW, I don't know if I mentioned a single material thing that I currently hope for, LOL, yet you mentioned all material things except for family and education...hmmm. Are believers' hopes more materialistic in this way, generally? Because wealth and gold and cars certainly weren't the first things to come to mind with "hope"...actually, they didn't come to mind at all until you mentioned them.
I will continue to have faith and hope for the future, for those going on living when the last curtain falls on my eyes. So nope. Wrong. I still won't be without hope. Pretty much ever, actually.
So your original statement that non-religious people don't have hope, to wit:
...continues to be false.
Oh well now THERE'S a creature anyone can love.
Okay. I didn't need your permission to do this, though.
OK, so if you claim that your soul will have 'hope' after you die, then I don't question it, and gladly give it to you.
So from here on, you stick to your hopes, and I will stick to my hopes. And we shall wait, and we shall see. Fair enough?
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Pretty much ever, actually.
