Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,917,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
......
There are a lot of for-profit businesses that get tax breaks. If a local municipality wants to give a tax break to a business to encourage economic growth, or population growth, whatever, they can choose to do so. Whether you like it or not, a church is an anchor point in a community -- people do move into a town or to a neighborhood to be close to their church, or they remain there because of their church. I've done it myself, and I've seen others do it.
There is no way in heck that any religious organization is an anchor point in the vast majority of communities, with the possible exception of the Vatican , Mecca and Salt Lake City. Churches are just not that relevant anymore, especially in the western world, and to think they are an anchor point is myopic. Perhaps 150 years ago they were, I don't question that, but today in most places they are not only not an anchor point, they are a small after thought in their irrelevancy.
Most people just don't care. They do care about jobs, safety including lack of crime, and good schools if they have kids. A church? Meh, most could care less.
There is no way in heck that any religious organization is an anchor point in the vast majority of communities, with the possible exception of the Vatican , Mecca and Salt Lake City. Churches are just not that relevant anymore, especially in the western world, and to think they are an anchor point is myopic. Perhaps 150 years ago they were, I don't question that, but today in most places they are not only not an anchor point, they are a small after thought in their irrelevancy.
Most people just don't care. They do care about jobs, safety including lack of crime, and good schools if they have kids. A church? Meh, most could care less.
Most people in the US are religious no more than 1/168th of the week, that hour in church. Otherwise they're no more religious than I am.
I have long made the point that most of what churches do is pay for their buildings and operating expenses of their private clubhouses, and the vast majority of that activity is not "charitable". And that's ignoring the pushing of the limits of political endorsement and speech / influence.
If it was a "private clubhouse" than why is anyone allowed to walk in? Not very "private" I dare say...
This whole thread is very short-sighted for one big, BIG reason:
As it stands now, churches are exempt from taxes at the price of their not being officially allowed to comment on political matters to the extent of endorsing candidates or using church resources to support a candidate. Is that provision enforced enough? HELL NO. But at least it prevents the worst-of-the-worst abuses of church power in politics.
If churches were taxed, they would be free to use whatever resources they had to push any candidate. The Pope, for example, could order the Cardinals to command every Catholic in America to vote Republican or be excommunicated. Mitt Romney could have his campaign save a bunch of money by using Mormon churches for HQs and use those funds to ensure his victory. Evangelicals can run thousands of local campaigns from their churches, using collection plate money to fund candidates to make their version of Christianity to be the law of the land.
All those things are illegal now as long as churches are tax exempt.
And what actually makes a church a church anyway? If a family prays in their home, is that a church? What if they invite friends over to hear someone give a talk on a Bible passage? What if Wiccans gather in an open space every weekend, should that space ban all religious activity? Okay...so no one can pray silently to themselves in a public space?
This is just one of those things the Fedora Boys like to bring up which is absolutely short sighted and silly. This is their version of the Christian Fundamentalists insisting America is a Christian country, when it clearly isn't (read the treaty of Tripoli if you don't believe me)
Don't like religion? Fine. I don't like American Football, so should the NFL lose its non-profit status?...don't answer that question...
If it was a "private clubhouse" than why is anyone allowed to walk in? Not very "private" I dare say...
Well they own buildings at which services are provided to members and interested parties who are prospects to become members. It's true that they aren't dues-paying members in the normally structured sense, it is not a private club in the sense that a country club or gentleman's club or a lodge is. But it's a fair characterization in the context of the topic at hand. Most of the budget of small to medium sized churches typically goes to their physical plant, its maintenance and utilities. The closest thing many conservative congregations have to community outreach is a missions program, which is just the same proselytization they do locally, with different marks. In fact they are openly opposed to programs for social good, on the basis that is is "the social gospel", a counterfeit of the Good News that ultimately promotes the notion that meeting people's spiritual needs isn't 100% of what the world needs, as opposed to food and housing and education for the disadvantaged, disaster relief, education and the like.
The relevance to this thread is that tax exemption is supposed to be a mechanism for stimulating actual social good. Food kitchens and homeless shelters: that's charity. A nice building with comfortable seats for promoting and advancing a private organization: that's not charity.
Exemptions were granted to churches in an era when it was believed that simply teaching people spiritual values and morality was itself a social good. I think that is becoming an increasingly discredited notion, particularly among Catholics with their pedophile priest issues.
This whole thread is very short-sighted for one big, BIG reason:
As it stands now, churches are exempt from taxes at the price of their not being officially allowed to comment on political matters to the extent of endorsing candidates or using church resources to support a candidate. Is that provision enforced enough? HELL NO. But at least it prevents the worst-of-the-worst abuses of church power in politics.
If churches were taxed, they would be free to use whatever resources they had to push any candidate. The Pope, for example, could order the Cardinals to command every Catholic in America to vote Republican or be excommunicated. Mitt Romney could have his campaign save a bunch of money by using Mormon churches for HQs and use those funds to ensure his victory. Evangelicals can run thousands of local campaigns from their churches, using collection plate money to fund candidates to make their version of Christianity to be the law of the land.
All those things are illegal now as long as churches are tax exempt.
That critique has some validity, but the problem is in your qualifier "officially" allowed. Unofficially, they get away with an awful lot of political campaign activities anyway. So I don't think proponents of taxing churches, either fully as Matadora seems to be suggesting, or for some of their activities as I favor, have as much of a downside to cope with as you might think.
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-21-2016 at 04:27 AM..
Reason: fixed closing quote tag
I agree 100% with this guy. Take away the extra subsidies that churches get and require them to operate under the same subsidy structure as all other non-profits operate under. After all they claim to be non-profit so hold them to the same standards as other non-profits.
I also don't think charity should be forced on us with taxes.
The matter of "charity" is a red herring - a crude, cynical deception intended to deny the reality of the nation's obligations to its people.
Taxes don't fund charity. Taxes fund the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.
A nation is rightfully judged by how it treats its most vulnerable members. The general welfare of the nation is epitomized by the lives lived by its weakest citizens. It is immoral to engage in deceptive rhetoric such as that you've posted to try to mischaracterize the nation's fulfilling of that obligation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
