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Old 08-31-2016, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,940 posts, read 5,297,242 times
Reputation: 17897

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
A billion dollars in art and they're "noble" for giving away haircuts. Got it.
I didn't just mention haircuts.

Should we lose all art? How about symphonies and museums? You are just trying to insult a religious institution that does more than any other.

Maybe you read the TOS for this forum.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 1,612,024 times
Reputation: 2158
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
I didn't just mention haircuts.

Should we lose all art? How about symphonies and museums? You are just trying to insult a religious institution that does more than any other.

Maybe you read the TOS for this forum.
I'm saying that an religious institution that accumulates billions of dollars in wealth shouldn't be lauded for that minor bit of help. It's like Howard Hughes handing out packs of gum.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,026 posts, read 54,523,130 times
Reputation: 66369
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
A billion dollars in art and they're "noble" for giving away haircuts. Got it.
You have a point, and I am not Catholic, but what do you do, destroy all the artwork because its existence is inconsistent with a message of charity? Even most atheists will acknowledge the magnificent art and music that has been generated by religion of all types, not just Christianity.

And of course you are being silly with the "haircuts" reference. The Catholic church does enormous works of charity for the poor. You know that. It's not a "minor bit".
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:39 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 1,612,024 times
Reputation: 2158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
You have a point, and I am not Catholic, but what do you do, destroy all the artwork because its existence is inconsistent with a message of charity? Even most atheists will acknowledge the magnificent art and music that has been generated by religion of all types, not just Christianity.
In what conceivable fashion did I say the art should be destroyed?
Quote:
And of course you are being silly with the "haircuts" reference. The Catholic church does enormous works of charity for the poor. You know that. It's not a "minor bit".
Yeah? How much more could they do if they liquidated all those pretty-pretties?
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,026 posts, read 54,523,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpanaPointer View Post
In what conceivable fashion did I say the art should be destroyed?

Yeah? How much more could they do if they liquidated all those pretty-pretties?
No, you didn't say it should be destroyed. Bad phrasing on my part, sorry--meant the destruction/dismantling of the art institutions themselves. But who could or would buy it?

Say there was a market for it--other, secular museums, I suppose, or private collectors--would it be worth it? Again, I understand your point about the inconsistency between what the church is supposed to be about and its holding of great wealth. It seems wrong, but is it?

Would the patrons of these art galleries give in the same way if their money was to go to feed people that they would to support and maintain ancient works of art?

The argument is based on the idea that the feeding of the poor is more important than maintaining the work of human creativity. Is that necessarily true?

I don't have the answer, mind you. Just throwing it out there.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:57 AM
 
Location: St. Louis
3,287 posts, read 1,612,024 times
Reputation: 2158
Have you seen "The Shoes of the Fisherman"?
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:38 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
C'mon, for real, cupper? People sleep on the streets in New York City, even in winter, under piles of blankets because the shelters are such dangerous places. No, not all homeless people are rapists and murderers, OF COURSE, but there is enough violence among them that the homeless shelters are very scary places. At the very least, if you have a decent pair of shoes, they'll be missing from your feet when you wake up.

You live in the middle of nowhere in Canada, IIRC, so maybe it's different there, but in a place like the city where the homeless population numbers around 40,000 and many of them are mentally ill, lots of inebriated people and people with past violent tendencies can be found in the shelters. LOL, go spend a night in one and report back to me on how peaceful it is.
Yes, currently I live in the middle of nowhere, and wish I had made THAT move years ago. Love it here!

However, I lived in a major (1 million plus) metro area for most of my life, and had a business at one point that was only a block from a men's homeless shelter, a women's one and one shelter that took only inebriated/drugged people as they were specially set up for that. So, I likely have a better exposure then most to some of the realities.

During my some 2 plus years when the business was located there, there was not one murder or rape at those shelters. I saw little violence, and was not particularly concerned about the residents of those shelters around my business from a safety perspective. If they hung around too long, I told them to move, and never had an issue with that happening. Never had to call the police, ever.

So, why didn't the churches in the area assist? Why didn't they staff up and feed? WWJD?
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:40 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
Probably for the same reason you don't. Don't hold others to a standard higher than you exhibit yourself.
I don't get special tax breaks, nor do I suggest I have a religion that makes helping the poor a touchstone issue. Yes, if churches want to be treated as special snowflakes, put into action what you preach.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:41 AM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 6,086,833 times
Reputation: 4527
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalot View Post
They also have showers and barbers for the homeless.

The Catholic church feeds, shelters and clothes more people than any other organization.
Can you document that? I would suggest the Sally Ann would be the one normally recognized with doing that.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,026 posts, read 54,523,130 times
Reputation: 66369
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Yes, currently I live in the middle of nowhere, and wish I had made THAT move years ago. Love it here!

However, I lived in a major (1 million plus) metro area for most of my life, and had a business at one point that was only a block from a men's homeless shelter, a women's one and one shelter that took only inebriated/drugged people as they were specially set up for that. So, I likely have a better exposure then most to some of the realities.

During my some 2 plus years when the business was located there, there was not one murder or rape at those shelters. I saw little violence, and was not particularly concerned about the residents of those shelters around my business from a safety perspective. If they hung around too long, I told them to move, and never had an issue with that happening. Never had to call the police, ever.

So, why didn't the churches in the area assist? Why didn't they staff up and feed? WWJD?
I don't know, maybe churches where you lived didn't step up. Maybe they didn't see it, or rather, closed their eyes to it. They DO in the NY/NJ metro area, probably because there is such a need here. You can't hide from it. I used to walk through the city streets in the winter seeing these people under blankets and sleeping bags along the sidewalks and marveled at how they survive. The homeless are very visible in NYC. Less so in NJ in that they aren't begging on the streets as in the city, but they are here.

After the Sandy superstorm where I live, there were hundreds of homeless sleeping on the bay beaches because their homes had washed away. People liked to sneer at the idea of rich people losing their beach houses, but the bayshore towns are low-income year-round communities and didn't get the attention that the wealthy towns did. A small church in Keansburg that used to provide food once a week started feeding people daily with support from the surrounding communities.

Small miracles: Keansburg church feeds many with few
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