What Do You Put The Odds Of An Afterlife At? What Would It Be Like? (paradise, after life)

[thrillobyte]

I used to be 100% sure of an afterlife even as a non-Christian when I turned to deism. Now I'm not as sure. My feeling is that NDE's are not as reliable a predictor of an afterlife as I used to believe they were simply because if they were real then everybody who clinically dies would have one but they don't. Only about 15% have them. Take away the frauds like Dannion Brinkley and Mellon Bennedict who had them in the privacy of their own homes and now write books and tell tall tales about theirs and the percentage drops even lower. I'm thinking it's just a matter of time before the scientists come up with a rational explanation to explain away the few remaining ones.

Those who think there is a possibility of an afterlife what do you personally put the odds at? Currently I think maybe it's 60% for and 40% against. I give them a slight edge because 1. I'm deist and so believe in some sort of higher power and 2. even though they vary considerably from person to person there are still a few similarities i.e. floating above the body, going down the tunnel, etc. The 40% just has to do with the belief that "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is" and why God makes things so terrible over here and so indescribably beautiful over there. Doesn't make a bit of sense to me.

But if such a place exists I would guess it's nothing fancy--probably an alternate dimension that looks exactly like this one, which is why many people have said they didn't even realize they were dead when they first entered this alternate state.

[OpanaPointer]

People seem distressed that the universe will get by without them.

[kab0906]

0%

It's arrogance and wishful thinking

[Cruithne]

I put the odds at about 99.9% against, in the sense that I wouldn't rule out some sort of natural universal consciousness - but not being sentient as such. More like an imprint left behind that fades. That's the best I can explain it.

That's better odds than I give god which I put at 100% against.

[Tzaphkiel]

100% that there is an afterlife

[Horn of ‘83]

100% paradise

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

I'm thinking it's just a matter of time before the scientists come up with a rational explanation to explain away the few remaining ones.

At this point however I am not sure what you feel is there to be explained any more? NDE is an interesting phenomenon that can be used to teach us a lot about the workings of the brain. But I am not really sure what aspect of them in and of themselves requires explanation in your view?

And in your other thread on the subject you should note how purveyors of the woo that surround NDE come into your thread and do little more than tell you to "ignore" skeptics. And that is MASSIVELY telling. When people purveying these lies can not rebut the skeptics and so turn to admonishing you to IGNORE the skeptics, you know something is amiss with their position.

And what those peddlers of woo are forced to do is ignore actual aspects of NDE which have pretty much been explained, and invent new ones instead. Such as telling you that NDE or other forms of changing the state of your brain allow you to access parts of reality that are otherwise precluded to you. Which is, I hasten to repeat, unsubstantiated nonsense.

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Those who think there is a possibility of an afterlife what do you personally put the odds at?

As most threads on this subject go, you are likely to be told by people that "We can not KNOW one way or another." and that any attempts at putting a probability on it is unsubstantiated guess work at best.

However I think we can paint a rosier picture than that as to our position on the after life. Sure we can not KNOW if there is one or not. And sure to say our knowledge of the workings of human consciousness is incomplete is an understatement.

But what we CAN say about our knowledge is that ALL of it..... literally 100% of it..... shows a connection between human consciousness and subjectivity.... and the brain. NONE of it.... literally 0% of it..... shows credibility towards ANY kind of disconnect between the two.... let alone after the death of the latter.

And when ALL evidence points towards one conclusion and NO evidence points towards the other.......... then it can be little more than faith, delusion, or wishful thinking to find the latter conclusion credible.

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Currently I think maybe it's 60% for and 40% against.

By all means show your workings and the substantiation upon which they are based.

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

I give them a slight edge because 1. I'm deist and so believe in some sort of higher power

The substantiation for THAT position would be interesting too. At this time I am aware of no, not little but no, arguments, evidence, data or reasoning that lends even a modicum of credence to the concept that our universe was created and/or subsequently maintained by a non-human intelligent and intentional agency.

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

even though they vary considerably from person to person there are still a few similarities i.e. floating above the body, going down the tunnel, etc.

That just shows evidence for something we know already.... that despite our perceived individuality we are all near identical at the level of the brain. And a brain under duress in one person is likely to act pretty much like a brain under duress in another person. So the similarities between experiences of people under similar circumstances provides NO evidence for the reality of the claims made off the back of NDE and OBE.

And that is BEFORE I point out the wealth of experiments that not only fails to find evidence that people with OBE actually did leave their body........ but in fact provide positive evidence they did NOT do so.

Also scientifically what could it even be that is "going" anywhere? We all know the law that energy is not created or destroyed it merely changes form right? So if some aspect of human consciousness "goes" somewhere on death then there should be some energy in our equations that is unaccounted for right????

Yet at this time I know we can measure the energy going into a body through food and the energies that come out in the form of work and heat dissipation and so forth.

And as far as I know, unless someone wants to correct me, there is nothing significant unaccounted for here. So not only are the people claiming an after life inventing evidence that is not there..... they must also be inventing a whole new form of energy that is not observed, not evidenced, not indicated and not suggested by anything we know.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

100% that there is an afterlife

Any workings on that?

[Zymer]

0%.

I've had some really freaky dreams/hallucinations when my heart rate and respiration have dropped far below 'normal'. Very interesting, but definitely not evidence of any sort of supernatural event. Completely explainable by ordinary means.

[ukrkoz]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
100% that there is an afterlife
Any workings on that?

yes. You simply need to discover them for YOU. He did, I know that, NF.
Why I simply do not toss a link at you? Why would I? Everything in spiritual progress is based on one's effort to achieve it. As it is YOUR progress. I have mine. Tzap has his. Or her.
So you do your own research and come to your own conclusions and then you simply stick to them. then, they will change. And change again. And again. Then, at some point, you'' realize that entire effort was absolutely futile and then you will let go - and the bliss will come. How many lives down the road it may be or, maybe, in this one - who knows and depends only from YOU. No one else. No scientist, no scripture, no saint. No one and nothing else.
Ehipassiko! Come and see.

Namaste

[ukrkoz]

To expand on above said:

they were confused as to whose teachings to follow, as ascetics would pas through expounding teachings while criticising others. Paraphrasing his reply, he said ——: don’t follow something just because you hear it all the time … nor because you read it in a book [or on a website] ……don’t base your spiritual life upon surmise, or axiom, or bias …
…. nor because a person in holy robes says it is so.
Instead, call upon the direct knowledge grounded in your own experience. Truth is in life. So take into account words of the wise, altho’ not passively —but, rather, through constant questioning and personal testing to identify those truths which you are able to demonstrate to yourself actually reduce your own stress or misery. If you thus find something of value, effective in your own life, by all means, take it to heart …
Come … see for yourself …
Ehipassiko!

Namaste