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I understand your frustration. However, to clarify a bit There is no such things as an "American Church" just as there's no English church, German church, Australian church, etc. There is God's Church period. Plus, God always has a remnant faithful to him (Romans 9:27, 11:5). "The Church" can never be brought to "its knees" (Matthew 16:18). Unite yes, but never at the abandonment of truth and correct doctrine. In other words, can you "unite" with someone that calls themselves a Christian but denies Jesus ever existed or was fully God? I don't think so.
You said,
I agree we need change, but I think we don't all sit in our little comfort zone and eat dough nuts and drink coffee. Should we be out evangelizing? Yes, but if you gage some of our non believing friends here on CD they will tell you not to bother Sad thing is the world does not want to hear the truth that is the wall that needs to be scaled and it's a big one.
i think that there is a difference between assimilating, and coming together in the sense that we can work together, respectfully, lovingly, even while having differences in doctrine and tradition.
i think that all of us, christians, buddhists, hindus, muslims, athiests, agnostics, and great-flying-spaghetti-monster-worshipers need to come together in the second sense. we really could get a lot done. it is perfectly easy to get along with someone of another philosophy or idealization. some of my best friends in the world do not share ny beliefs, not even in the remotest sense. but we still get along. why? because we dropped our pride, dropped our intolerance, and learned to respect.
Unite yes, but never at the abandonment of truth and correct doctrine. In other words, can you "unite" with someone that calls themselves a Christian but denies Jesus ever existed or was fully God? I don't think so.
Funny how everyone thinks they have the 'real truth'. How do you know yours IS correct doctrine? The Non-Trinitarians are just as vociferous in proclaiming themselves 'right'. And no, it is not cut and dried, just because you say it is.
even if you do think that you have the one and only ultimate truth, you can still resepct others, and yes, you can still even respect their beliefs. i am christian. i believe in Christ. but i still respect the pagan beliefs of the ancient greeks, the norse, the egyptians, etc. i respect the sikh, the hinu, the buddhist, the athiest, etc. it comes down to pride and ignorance vs respect and compassion. which is more important for us?
A religion isnt suppose to change because of the people around them, christainty however is very good at this
So what college did you go to for your theological degree? I mean, since you KNOW what "religion" is supposed to be and are absolute about it, I would think you have some kind of graduate degree on the subject.
So what are your credentials to make such a claim?
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Last edited by Alpha8207; 02-25-2008 at 06:52 PM..
The premise that there was unity in the first Christian churches is completely false. Until the Council of Nicea, there were literally hundreds of differing Christian churches and theologies. As a political control, the Roman Catholic church decided what was ok and what was heretical. The Greek Orthodox church disagreed and broke off on their own path. What was deemed heretical could at the Church's determination be a capital offense and torture was sanctioned as a method to force people to adhere to their views.
Once Constantine embraced the Roman Catholic church, it became the force of law and the plunge into the Dark Ages was secured. Hundreds of thousands of people were tortured and murdered to secure the Church's power and whole libraries were burned to keep people ignorant of other ideas.
Even with this danger, all thru the history of the Church, there were periodic "heretical" movements that proclaimed they had the correct interpretation and theology. These were always met with more torture and murder campaigns to squelch the dissenters until the Reformation when some dissenters gained the support of various states to throw off the shackles of the Church (only to have a little different Church sponsored tyranny). There never was a time of universal agreement and the attempts to enforce it have always been extremely bloody.
So, what is the good part of universal religion? Do you really want to go back to the life of the Middle Ages? Be careful of what you wish for.
What does God expect His church to do? For example, is it wrong for a church to not offer a Sunday School? It is possible that God wants us to set aside our preconceived ideas about a traditional church and how it should be run--attend Sunday School, come into the church's sanctuary, pray, sing 3 hymns, one of which is done standing, sit down, pray some more, take up an offering, listen to someone sing, listen to a message from the Bible (hopefully) and then go home after smiling at each other--and truly just seek to worship and serve Him? What if it's not done that way--is it a bad church?
Last edited by carolac; 02-24-2008 at 11:58 AM..
Reason: correct typo
What does God expect His church to do? For example, is it wrong for a church to not offer a Sunday School? It is possible that God wants us to set aside our preconceived ideas about a traditional church and how it should be run--attend Sunday School, come into the church's sanctuary, pray, sing 3 hymns, one of which is done standing, sit down, pray some more, take up an offering, listen to someone sing, listen to a message from the Bible (hopefully) and then go home after smiling at each other--and truly just seek to worship and serve Him? What if it's not done that way--is it a bad church?
I don't think it is wrong or right to have church this way. I just think it can be bad if we get in a rut and just "go through the motions" and not let the message sink into our heart. If we are just going to church so that our name is on the roll, then we went for the wrong reason. No matter what the routine of the service (and this applies to any denomination, even ones who don't follow the outline you related above), if it is just routine, then we are missing the point.
well Do what I do I pray for the bride of Christ, I pray that we become the church of no blemish and no wrinkles, I pray that we are forgiven....etc. instead of pointing out her faults try praying for her promises.
Church isn't something that you have or a place. It is a spiritual body of penetant baptised believers. Nothing more Nothing less.
Christ didn't want a particular country or a particular group of people to take ownership of his church (like td jakes church or joel olsteens church)
Christ wants to be recognised as the head of his church. No other way will do.
The problem came along around 100 years after the close of the new testament. This is the beginning of apostacy. When man started taking ownership of christ church. (the start of catholic church)
Until we start being the church that Christ wants us to be and let him take ownership of it. there will always be confusion.
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There is no such things as an "American Church" just as there's no English church, German church, Australian church, etc. There is God's Church period. Plus, God always has a remnant faithful to him (Romans 9:27, 11:5). "The Church" can never be brought to "its knees" (Matthew 16:18). Unite yes, but never at the abandonment of truth and correct doctrine. In other words, can you "unite" with someone that calls themselves a Christian but denies Jesus ever existed or was fully God? I don't think so. 
Sad thing is the world does not want to hear the truth that is the wall that needs to be scaled and it's a big one. 
