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You are one dense guy. I was certainly wrong about your level of intelligence.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Why is it true? If you believe that we are all just animals.....and we are all basically products of chemical reactions, where does morality come from? If we're just doing what comes natural, how can it be wrong?
What does it matter where it comes from? If we only did things that were natural, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We tend to do things because they are good for society, not because they are natural. Last I checked though, murder isn't "natural".
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Not if we're all just animals. There is nothing immoral about a chimpanzee killing another chimp. Or a lion killing a zebra. Or a coyote eating a fawn.
Or even a killer whale killing seals for sport. It's what they are--it's their nature.
They are killing for food, which is not the same, and as usual, you know this, yet choose to be deliberately ignorant. You are also comparing a whale to humans, which is just plain ridiculous, which again, you know, yet choose to be deliberately obtuse.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
I get it. You don't have an answer, so you're bailing on the tough questions.
I have given you answers. You simply refuse to read and understand them, Slick.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
At least based on your OPINION. Sorry....your OPINION is not binding on God.
Yea? What is yours based on? The Bible? Which in YOUR OPINION is true? Face it Slick, everything is someone opinion, even your precious holy book.
Why is that wrong? Can you tell me without assuming morality?
As stated earlier, if life is good than depriving another of their life without cause is bad.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Why is that wrong? Can you tell me without assuming morality?
As stated earlier, if life is good than depriving another of their life without cause is bad.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Why is that wrong? Can you tell me without assuming morality?
If freedom is good, then depriving another of their freedom is bad.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
The Bible never states that.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 New International Version (NIV)
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
But even so....why is that wrong? Can you tell me without assuming morality?
Because they're not authoritative. Neither is your opinion.
What makes your OPINION the standard?
No Viz. It is always "opinion". Each person has a different personal standard as to what is "moral" or "right" or "wrong".
No one gets to say their opinion is more valid than another as a basis.
You use the Bible as a basis...but others use the same Book and have a different opinion as to the interpretation of it for their basis. What interpretation is correct to use as a basis?
Others use different "Holy" books and writings as a basis. That is their "opinion". Why is it any less valid as a basis?
I think where you lose track...is failing to to realize that your individual and personal interpretation of that one particular Book is just YOUR OPINION...and has no more objective validity than any other.
You are one dense guy. I was certainly wrong about your level of intelligence.
What does it matter where it comes from? If we only did things that were natural, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We tend to do things because they are good for society, not because they are natural. Last I checked though, murder isn't "natural".
They are killing for food, which is not the same, and as usual, you know this, yet choose to be deliberately ignorant. You are also comparing a whale to humans, which is just plain ridiculous, which again, you know, yet choose to be deliberately obtuse.
So, as I asked above, a killer whale killing for sport is immoral?
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I have given you answers. You simply refuse to read and understand them, Slick.
You've begged the question. You're assuming that to be true, but you have not explained WHY it is.
STILL waiting for you to quit dodging the question.
No Viz. It is always "opinion". Each person has a different personal standard as to what is "moral" or "right" or "wrong".
No one gets to say their opinion is more valid than another as a basis.
So every time an atheist whines about God being immoral, it's a moot point, since they have no basis for judging another's morality. Gotcha.
STILL waiting for someone to tell me why they think they can say God is immoral....
So, as I asked above, a killer whale killing for sport is immoral?
You've begged the question. You're assuming that to be true, but you have not explained WHY it is.
STILL waiting for you to quit dodging the question.
As I stated above, comparing a whale to a human morality is ridiculously stupid. If it were a human killing other humans for sport, it would certainly be immoral
And you are ASSUMING your Bible is true, and using your OPINION to base your morality on. How are you any different? Saying the Bible is the source of morality is absurdly stupid, and as I told someone earlier in the thread, if you think the Bible is the only true source of morality, and the Bible is needed to be moral, in the words of Amiri King, "I have news for you. You're parents are related!"
I haven't dodged anything, Slick. I am tired of your "play dumb!" routine though. You have ZERO substance, and no longer merit a response on this topic.
Viz has pulled this schtick for years. Since it reflects his mind, it's very simple:
Viz' "opinion" is the godling in his holy book establishes morality.
Sane, educated, moral people know it does not.
Viz does not value the opinion of sane, educated, moral people.
In reality, Viz doesn't actually have an opinion. He let's his religion choose his opinion for him. It is a sad and pathetic way to go through life.
I mean, come on man! He admitted earlier that he can't determine right from wrong unless his Bible tells him.... That is quite scary if you ask me, and also tells me that he probably skews towards the psychopath side of things, since he has no empathy and has to rely on others to tell him what is right and wrong.
Oh, so you are like Vizio, and can't determine what someone means. I should have known.
Silly me, I keep forgetting you guys like to be purposely obtuse. No more use for a conversation with you if you can't read and understand a simple post.
So, tell me...what determination of "murder" do we go by?
The laws in the U.S.? The laws in Saudi Arabia? Current laws? Previous laws? The laws in some "holy book"? What you think it should be? What I think it should be? Some other random persons opinion of what is or isn't "murder"?
"Murder" as opposed to what is "morally justified killing" varies greatly from place to place and time to time. So, what basis do we use for that determination...that could be deemed "categorically objective"?
I Submit: There isn't any "more valid" basis. But...since you argue so fervently that others are "wrong" (because they are "crazy" and "psychopaths") and you are "right" (because you are not "crazy")...it would be great if you enlightened us all with your superior knowledge and sanity...and hipped us to what objective basis there is you know of to determine what killing is murder, and what killing is morally justified.
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