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I've been called a "fundamentalist", but no--I don't believe we are saved by accepting Jesus, or uttering a few words. We are saved by God regenerating our hearts and then we place our faith in him--after we realize we are sinners incapable of saving ourselves, and we need a savior. The "Sinner's Prayer" is not recorded anywhere in the Bible.
I would have commended you for considering it. More than likely, though, he realized you were not actually serious about reading the Bible, and had no intention. But it does not excuse him for trying to make the "hard sell" on you.
My thought is that your basic premise is wrong at the start. We are not saved by hearing a snippet and choosing to utter a prayer.
All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. I think that has alot to do with the sinners prayer.
It was Augustine who first came up with that, right? I mean, many Christians would say it was Paul, but I believe Augustine fined tuned it and the Church milked it to their advantage?
I don't know what Augustine might have done with it, but even as written in Genesis it just doesn't make any logical sense. I don't remember where I first heard it expressed as "original sin", maybe one of my Catholic girlfriends. (I went with one or two of them to services just out of curiosity.)
God changes our hearts to believe the Gospel--but it's not us that talks people into Heaven, and they don't get there by reciting a prayer. It's a genuine change of heart and dependence on God brought about by God to believe in Jesus -- and he uses us to proclaim that message.
Ah, yes....
Jeremiah 17:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
As descendants of Adam, we are now tainted with his sin.
You might be but I can assure you the rest of us are not descendants of Adam.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
We are sinners by nature.
Such a lie that you've been conditioned to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
That's why Jesus had to be born without an earthly father -- he was not descended from Adam. He is called the "new Adam", or "second Adam". Unless you're born again in HIM, you are still in Adam. And as children of Adam, we were all born sinners.
The bible is full of nonsense.
You might be but I can assure you the rest of us are not descendants of Adam.
Such a lie that you've been conditioned to believe.
Utter nonsense.
It's mind blowing that in the 21st Century you find people still living in the Bronze Ages.
Talk about unevolved oppressive thinking!
It is not entirely their fault,Matadora. Their religion demands that they retain the ancient ignorance of our ancestors as a sign of faith in God. The same is true for faith in the Bible. They are told that if they abandon them, they are abandoning God.
It is not entirely their fault,Matadora. Their religion demands that they retain the ancient ignorance of our ancestors as a sign of faith in God. The same is true for faith in the Bible. They are told that if they abandon them, they are abandoning God.
It's their fault for allowing themselves to be controlled with lies.
They live in a country that allows religious freedom vs. forced religious ideologies, thus they have a choice.
In the world of fundamentalists, one has to "accept" Jesus as their so-called "lord and savior" in order to be saved or become a Christian. You do this by uttering a few words and accepting him into your life, so to speak. The preferred route is that you hear someone preach to you or "witness" to you and you accept the truth of Jesus and the bible and commit yourself to the Christian faith and Jesus.
With that in mind, one day while walking through downtown Miami, a young man stepped in front of me to tell me about Jesus. At the moment, I decided to entertain him and told him that he should give me a month or two to finish reading the bible and THEN I would make a decision on it. As he was not expecting that, he looked shocked that I would even say something like that, but I asked him if it did not make sense for me to read the entire contract before signing my name to it? This is when he started with the subtle threats telling me that if I do not accept Jesus today, then I run the risk of not making it to heaven if I died in my sins BEFORE I finished reading the bible.
I point all of this out because, in the fundamentalist world, THIS is how people become saved. They hear a snippet of the bible that either sounds like bliss or they hear something that makes them fear. Others hear something about a god who is so in love with them and care for their every need and such a message meets them at some great despondence in their lives. What I've seen happen (as was my case), once they start reading more of the bible, they come across odious passages or passages that make no sense, but the commitment is already there and now fear and/or embarrassment takes precedence over common sense.
Thoughts?
First of all that is not fundamentalism. Unfortunately some churches teach that evangelism is confronting people about salvation. The best method of evangelism is letting people see our faith in action by doing good works and treating everyone with respect.
Reading the Bible will not convert anyone, because until they are converted that can't understand it. What makes no sense and seems odious, will be cleared up if they are converted.
God changes our hearts to believe the Gospel--but it's not us that talks people into Heaven, and they don't get there by reciting a prayer. It's a genuine change of heart and dependence on God brought about by God to believe in Jesus -- and he uses us to proclaim that message.
The Bible does say we must confess Jesus as Lord(Rom10:9). This is done by prayer. However it is not the prayer that saves, it is the sincerity of the prayer. You are right that God changes the heart.
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