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Great big fat lie for an explanation for how BOTH kinds of fossilized bones can be on that mountaintop, but hey, they have to present everything in respect to the evolution theory; an atheists' beloved fairy tale. Funny how you can find similar mass fossilized grave sites spread out all over the world. DUH !!!
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What's so mysterious about land a sea animal fossils being found together in a region of geological uplifting?
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Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit
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Yeah.. sure. Invented. Right. When that false science favors from gradual macroevolution to rapid macroevolution or punctual equilibrium, how is that not screaming at you as "invented" by mankind?
So which is right? Gradual or rapid?
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Both are correct. It's simple - when a population is large and exists in a stable environment, change will be gradual if at all. In an environment of rapid change, posing survival challenges for a population that is greatly reduced by those conditions, rapid change will occur since only those individuals better able to survive the conditions will tend to survive and those would carry a greater degree of variation which will lend to better survival rates. Remember that the smaller the population the less cross breading and dilution of variations.
Supposedly, in according to Roman practice, any legion that fails to do their duty are put to death; ...
No. If a legion failed in battle, every 100th man was put to death. The officer that counted out each 100th man was called a Centurion ..as in 100 = Century.
I'll leave the rest of your post to Shirina. I don't want to spoil her fun.
I just now realized who I'm responding to. This could get messy. Can you explain yourself?
Coffe-snorter -post of the week
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
No. If a legion failed in battle, every 100th man was put to death. The officer that counted out each 100th man was called a Centurion ..as in 100 = Century.
I'll leave the rest of your post to Shirina. I don't want to spoil her fun.
"Decimation" is what they called it. And the body going missing even though Roman soldiers were watching it hardly counts as a failure in battle. The suggestion (it is the only one I can see) that the soldiers feared that was the sort of trouble they would get if Pilate heard the body had gone Awol is less to do with a serious argument and more to do with apologetic rummaging around for anything the even looks like it might be factual support for a Bible claim.
But the story has to go in the 'fabrication' bin. Quite apart from the disciples having all night to get Jesus out before the guard was posted the next day, nobody but Matthew reports the posting of a guard - apart from the gospel of Peter - which is part of the evidence that Peter is a later fudging up of the story using all the gospels together, when at the time they were (re) written, none of them saw any on the others, or they would at least have all agreed there was a guard, a nativity and a spear in the side.
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Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit
Even Paul testified that if Christ had not risen, then we all preach in vain; and Paul was a persecutor of christians; having stoned and thus killed the apostle Stephen, & was on his way to Damascus to kill others, before he met Him in a vision along the way.
Well, you have the Jews throwing out the accusations that His disciples had stolen His body, so how are you going to believe?
Supposedly, in according to Roman practice, any legion that fails to do their duty are put to death; and so the Jews arguing for having a legion to guard His tomb brought about several oversights to deniers.
Atheists can easily look for excuses not to believe by just overlooking evidence that would refute those excuses.
This is an example of atheist looking for a reason not to believe by citing the World Net Daily. It does not matter that any one can google "chariot wheels Red Sea" to get links to evidence to prove that it is not just some story posted on the World Net Daily.
Egyptian chronology is to be questioned because when it is " off " the way it is, it is no wonder doubts are given to the Biblical timeline of Egyptian chronology in getting the name for that Pharoah.
At this link is a report in "The Telegraph" of discoveries that the Biblical plagues had happened, but they tried to reason it away with scientific explanations as caused by global warming and volcanic eruptions.
Just as these days, one cannot trust anything written when science protests way too much even when proving YOU wrong !!!! So any atheist will just modify their disbelief and say ... well okay.. there is evidence of Exodus, but science explained it away as caused by global warming and volcanic eruptions.
So what are you going to do? Defamate the Telegraph online? Ignore all those named scientists as well?
Just like science explained away the obvious evidence for the Biblical global flood by finding a mass graves of fossilized whale bones with fossilized marine life on mountaintops WITH fossilized land animal bones TOGETHER !!!!! BUT hey... we have to present everything in respect to the evolution theory while ignoring our very own common sense that there are fossilized land animals buried with them. DUH !!!
Great big fat lie for an explanation for how BOTH kinds of fossilized bones can be on that mountaintop, but hey, they have to present everything in respect to the evolution theory; an atheists' beloved fairy tale. Funny how you can find similar mass fossilized grave sites spread out all over the world. DUH !!!
Yeah.. sure. Invented. Right. When that false science favors from gradual macroevolution to rapid macroevolution or punctual equilibrium, how is that not screaming at you as "invented" by mankind?
So which is right? Gradual or rapid? Which is true when science is still saying both are true?
You want to apply that same skepticism to the evolution theory now or are you just going to be waffling on your standard because you want to believe the evolution theory is true so you can overlook your poor research on the Biblical event on the internet because you do not want to believe in Him nor His words?
Well... to each his or her own then. Let everybody not take anything at face value and search all you want, because whether you like it or not; it seems to me that because of my faith in Him and knowing His words by His grace & by His help, I can see all the misinformation out there, and why it takes more faith to NOT BELIEVE because you have no reason not to believe. Even the Bible says that.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,..........
I understand that you do not want to believe, but seekers can find the answers they need to believe, especially in a world of misinformation and lies that they can ask God to help them to believe in His Son.
I don't know whether Shirina is able or willing to respond to this rubbish, but most of it is unrelated to the matter of the resurrection. I won't go into arguments about Egyption chronology (a debate about a couple of hundred years, or so I read) or plagues leading to the capital being abandoned(the Rammesids were ruling from there until after the settlement of the Philistines in Gaza - by which time Israel was already a state) but the old nonsense about sea fossils on mountain tops has been long refuted. These are fossils of sea creatures that died, sank to the sea floor and formed fossils. Then the seafloor became rock strata. Then new mountain -ranges such as the Andes and Himalayas rose up over millions of years taking the sea floor strata with them. The evidence is in the strata obviously being an old sea -bed, with shells in situ and worm burrows in the fossil sea bed. (and chariot -wheels in the red sea? We have only coral formations that look a bit wheel -like and some metal wheels in photographs - and they are nothing like actual Egyptian chariot wheels.)
This was long known and applies here as well. That is what you get for lifting half -assed sensationalist apologetics from a rag like the Telegraph instead to going to properly informed sources.
Now perhaps we could abandon doorstep conversion -patter and get back to topic. As to that, who we are going to believe? Jews who were there at the time saying the disciples took the body or Matthew who had to read the OT in Greek, invented a resurrection that is contradicted by both Luke and Paul and came up with nonsense about tombs opening and angels descending. I'll tell you whom I'm more prepared to believe. Especially as the crucifixion accounts (if you take them as reliable - I don't) shout a plot to get Jesus off the cross while still alive.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 01-03-2017 at 06:03 AM..
I no longer believe that Jesus was the Messiah or the Lamb of God or that Jesus has anything to do with salvation. Once a person realizes that this made-up religion by Paul, then one becomes free. One comes to realistic terms with God.
Besides, it is not Jesus who would be doing the saving in any effect. It is God that does the saving. It is an anathema that Christianity has replaced God with Jesus, even by creating out of nothing a triune God that has no real roots in Jewish theology.
The Triune God has no roots in Jewish theology, but they have roots in scripture.
Jewish scripture testify of the God sent by the Lord God and His Spirit; Isaiah 48:16-17
Jewish scripture has God speaking in the plural sense for the creation of man, and yet when creating man, it was done so in the singular sense. Jews tried to explain it away by saying angels helped or that God was speaking to the elements.
Even the Hebrew word for God is defined as plural.
They have scriptures prophesying about Jesus Christ.
Zechariah 12th chapter testify to the One Whom they had pierced and Zechariah 14:1-5 testify to the Lord God returning with the saints at the end of the prophesied coming great tribulation Whose feet will touch down on Mount Olivet.
And yes, they have altered the Talmud because christians were using the original scripture in winning many Jews to Christ.
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Later, I will expound on the mistranslation of "Kingdom of God." This Greek aberration of the Hebrew dialect changed Jesus' words from "spiritual empowerment" to something silly like "Kingdom of God." The entire life of Jesus, who was more a zealot than people want to accept, dedicated his life to "save" the Jews from the Temple and its spiritual crushing--also physical enslavement--to the very real relationship between the people and God.
John, whoever really wrote that book, echoed a message that was being formed by the Bishop of Rome, but not necessarily by the other Bishops of other cities in the early Christian world. And it is a shame that John is the book quoted most often when the other three books are much closer to reality. It took an Emperor, Dionysus, to put his foot down and declare Jesus as God. Why? Two things: 1) Preserve the Empire, and 2) because all of the theologians of the day could not come to a consensus about the nature of Jesus and were willing to kill each other--essentially splitting the Empire--over their own way of thinking.
God saves. Not Jesus.
Does the Declaration of Independence exists where all men are created equal and rights for all? But there was slavery being practiced back then and for quite some time. Sooo... that invalidates the Declaration of Independence? That it is a fraud? That it never existed?
For all the disciples that had fled when He was arrested; where did they get the audacity to die for Him unless He had resurrected? How would a persecutor like Saul who was converted n the way to Damascus to kill more christians, be even received by christians unless something had happened to him?
And Paul died for his faith in Jesus Christ. So did the other disciples. Because Jesus saves; and yet when only God can save; that means Jesus is God. Secular reports had christians worshipping Him.
Should that read to you that they know something that you do not?
What's so mysterious about land a sea animal fossils being found together in a region of geological uplifting?
Is it a coincidence that this so called " isolated " geologic uplifting can be found at various places all over the world with mass graves of fossilized marine life with & without fossilized land animal bones on mountaintops as well as valleys?
You really cannot see that the fossilized animal bones found with fossilized whale bones and other marine life where they can just pick either one of them up meant that they were put there together at the same time with no millions of years passing inbetween?
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Both are correct. It's simple - when a population is large and exists in a stable environment, change will be gradual if at all. In an environment of rapid change, posing survival challenges for a population that is greatly reduced by those conditions, rapid change will occur since only those individuals better able to survive the conditions will tend to survive and those would carry a greater degree of variation which will lend to better survival rates. Remember that the smaller the population the less cross breading and dilution of variations.
It's not rocket science.
It's not science at all. Microevolution is just an interjected term from the Law of Biogenesis; but it is macroevolution that is not science at all which is really what the evolution theory is all about.
Variations within the species is microevolution or the Law of Biogenesis.
When a claim of macroevolution is being made by any one today; that new specie cannot mingle with its former specie. No real scientist can give an exception because then macroevolution ceases to be.
You look at all the definitions of microevolution and macroevolution; in dictionaries, from college websites; from atheists websites... they are not all saying the same thing.
There are no "facts" in the evolution theory when they keep moving the guideposts for it. That is like saying... "do you really mean that?" to every evolutionists around while they have liberty to say otherwise without any one calling foul on their line of bull.
So no. You do not get to say both are correct without anyone seeing you as just a person that wants to believe in it but has no real evidence for doing so and no solid leg to stand on for either one.
Last edited by PoorInSpirit; 01-03-2017 at 06:53 AM..
"Decimation" is what they called it. And the body going missing even though Roman soldiers were watching it hardly counts as a failure in battle. The suggestion (it is the only one I can see) that the soldiers feared that was the sort of trouble they would get if Pilate heard the body had gone Awol is less to do with a serious argument and more to do with apologetic rummaging around for anything the even looks like it might be factual support for a Bible claim.
But the story has to go in the 'fabrication' bin. Quite apart from the disciples having all night to get Jesus out before the guard was posted the next day, nobody but Matthew reports the posting of a guard - apart from the gospel of Peter - which is part of the evidence that Peter is a later fudging up of the story using all the gospels together, when at the time they were (re) written, none of them saw any on the others, or they would at least have all agreed there was a guard, a nativity and a spear in the side.
Check Jewish scripture then....
Zechariah 12:8In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Do the Jews have this in their scripture or not of the prophesy of their coming Messiah? And yes, there are other prophesies in the scripture testifying of Jesus as Jesus had said so in John 5:39-40
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I don't know whether Shirina is able or willing to respond to this rubbish, but most of it is unrelated to the matter of the resurrection. I won't go into arguments about Egyption chronology (a debate about a couple of hundred years, or so I read) or plagues leading to the capital being abandoned(the Rammesids were ruling from there until after the settlement of the Philistines in Gaza - by which time Israel was already a state) but the old nonsense about sea fossils on mountain tops has been long refuted. These are fossils of sea creatures that died, sank to the sea floor and formed fossils. Then the seafloor became rock strata. Then new mountain -ranges such as the Andes and Himalayas rose up over millions of years taking the sea floor strata with them. The evidence is in the strata obviously being an old sea -bed, with shells in situ and worm burrows in the fossil sea bed. (and chariot -wheels in the red sea? We have only coral formations that look a bit wheel -like and some metal wheels in photographs - and they are nothing like actual Egyptian chariot wheels.)
Missing the forest for all the trees. Did you note that a column was placed there on both sides by King Solomon to commemorate the site? Did you see the only blackened mountaintop on the other side and evidence of a base camp where the Israelites made a graffitti of a horned cow on a boulder with other markings from which they made the golden calf?
Nah. More coincidence. They do not use round pillars back in those days. You know because science was there, right? And the coral formation on a human rib cage....or how there was a drop in the lineage of Egyptian pharoahs when one rein ended.
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This was long known and applies here as well. That is what you get for lifting half -assed sensationalist apologetics from a rag like the Telegraph instead to going to properly informed sources.
For your point to be valid is to make all points on your side of the discussion invalid.
It is an assumption to believe there was zero population in Nazareth at one time but you guys missed that point.
Jerusalem was conquered with its inhabitants carried off to Babylon; but that does not mean there was zero population there.
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Now perhaps we could abandon doorstep conversion -patter and get back to topic. As to that, who we are going to believe? Jews who were there at the time saying the disciples took the body or Matthew who had to read the OT in Greek, invented a resurrection that is contradicted by both Luke and Paul and came up with nonsense about tombs opening and angels descending. I'll tell you whom I'm more prepared to believe. Especially as the crucifixion accounts (if you take them as reliable - I don't) shout a plot to get Jesus off the cross while still alive.
Do you believe that the Jews had arranged for a Roman legion to guard the tomb or not?
Do you believe that if you fled Jesus like a chicken when He was arrested, and crucified that you would suddenly come back and die for a lie if you were of the ones that had stolen His body?
PAUL said himself that if Christ had not risen, then all their preachings is in vain. Paul died for the Truth.
If only the discussion was about something in the past, but many believers today has gotten to know Him in a personal way because Jesus saves. So regardless of the misinformations and the lies out there and the lack of evidence or the misrepresentations of those evidences, I can say thanks to God the Father in revealing His Son to me, I have gotten to know Him & the power of His resurrection so I believe the King James Bible for what it maintains in keeping the testimonies of the Son to know the truth and be set free from the ever changing words of fallible men.
Last edited by PoorInSpirit; 01-03-2017 at 07:07 AM..
Supposedly, in according to Roman practice, any legion that fails to do their duty are put to death; and so the Jews arguing for having a legion to guard His tomb brought about several oversights to deniers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
No. If a legion failed in battle, every 100th man was put to death. The officer that counted out each 100th man was called a Centurion ..as in 100 = Century.
I'll leave the rest of your post to Shirina. I don't want to spoil her fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Coffe-snorter -post of the week
"Decimation" is what they called it. And the body going missing even though Roman soldiers were watching it hardly counts as a failure in battle. The suggestion (it is the only one I can see) that the soldiers feared that was the sort of trouble they would get if Pilate heard the body had gone ian chariot wheels.)
Sorry, I can't help myself, I am a bit of a Roman history nerd.
Transponder is correct, the word is decimation. It was reserved as a punishment for the entire Legion, and only for the most serious military crime of mutiny or desertion. The legionaries (soldiers) would be divided into groups of 10, and each group would be responsible for stoning on of their number to death.
A Centurian is the commander of a Century. Originally 100 men, but after the Marian military reforms of approx 100 BCE numbered 80. we don't have a great equivalent for this position in 21st century armies. Think of a combination of sergeant and captain.
In any case, losing a body would never have resulted in decimation as a punishment. The entire Legion would have had to leave their camp, putting a big welcome sign on the gates of Jerusalem telling the Jews that they can have the city back in order to merit decimation.
Two soldiers losing a dead body? Maybe a whipping, but probably not even that. Probably some sort of humiliating duty or minor physical punishment.
No. If a legion failed in battle, every 100th man was put to death. The officer that counted out each 100th man was called a Centurion ..as in 100 = Century.
I'll leave the rest of your post to Shirina. I don't want to spoil her fun.
Actually, every 10th man was killed. It was called "decimation."
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