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this is true if one' needs that type of relationship. We all don't need it.
but the whole point of the thread is that he IS interested in exploring where he fits and how it can help him in his life. If he was not seeking then there would be no opening post.
I didn't know Christians and Jews have their own libraries. I should definitely look into that.
I do agree that I can learn a lot more about how people of a particular faith believe by going to their places of worship, but I am just a bit skeptical as to how much I can learn by doing that, unless I was to ask for specific questions about their history, philosophy, or morals to someone who knows them in depth. I feel like I've been to several churches, and the people there all worship some-what the same or in similar ways: All of the ones I've experienced have similar or same values, and believe that Christ is the only way to salvation. The "white" churches and the "black" churches and the "mixed" churches and so on worship differently in terms of movement and music, and possibly themes, but in every church, everyone is pretty much like anyone else I would meet on the streets or on campus, which makes sense.
Whenever we would go into dialogue about the religious belief, it would be about how great God and Jesus are, and following their word and example, and half the time it is usually an attempt to convert me to Christianity, in which I respond that I'm already a COGIC follower, which isn't a lie. Other times, I actually did have interesting conversations with people I know who are devote Christians about God, the universe, and spirituality. I remember an old friend of mine who got to talking about how much do I believe in what the Bible says about Jesus and God. I thought I remembered telling him that I believed that I believe that Jesus was at least someone who truly believed in people and loved them so much that he died for their sins, and that it sounded great. I also told him that I find the story of Genesis hard to believe, and that I interpreted the idea of the Earth being created in seven days as God creating it over the course of seven-billion or seven-trillion years or something like that, and that it only seemed like seven days to God because he's an all-powerful and eternal entity. I'm not saying that is my actual scientific-based belief, but it's the only way I could rationalize the story of Genesis in my mind since I believe more in the scientific belief of how the Earth was made.
One thing that always confused me about Christianity and made me concerned about it, is how sin works: Is there really no middle-ground between Heave and Hell where someone can wait for entry into Heaven, like Limbo or Purgatory? If I commit a small sin before passing away, will I automatically go to Hell, or is it more of a sliding scale of how many good or bad things I've done over the course of my life? My pastors always made it sound like the former. Also, unborn babies go to Hell? How is that fair? Can't their souls be recycled and tried again in another body instead of something that hasn't even learned yet automatically going to a place of eternal torment? If a woman was to be the absolute sweetest woman I've ever met, always trying to do the right thing, pure as snow and never had sex or at least not outside of marriage, a complete Saint except in faith, she would still go to Hell when she dies and be tortured because she never even HEARD of God because nobody told her? Is that what the Bible actually says? And every time the answer is basically "yes, that's what the Bible says" and "it's fair because God says so and is fair." What?
So as you can tell, I just feel a little conflicted about Christianity, and I feel like maybe I should critically study the Bible and find my own interpretations, at the risk of being "wrong", much like how many different sects of Christianity have different interpretations. This got a bit derailed for me, so I'm not sure if I accurately expressed my feelings about going to a place of worship for study. I guess since I've already been exposed to Christianity so much, I feel like I would do better to just study the Bible on my own and see what I think. But I think that for all the other beliefs, going to a place of worship at least once could do some good, once I get the chance.
In the meantime, I just want to study their sacred texts so that I get a basic understanding of their beliefs, with the exception of Buddhism, which I want to study to learn more about the belief and also find some life advice. I feel like I've been given advice from Christianity a lot, but it's never been clear or satisfactory. It was always something like "just pray on it" or "turn the other cheek and love thou neighbor" or "just avoid the sin". I almost feel as if Buddhism might, and I mean MIGHT, tell me about the benefits of turning the other cheek and why it's so hard to do so, and WHY might I be attracted to sinful things and what I should think of or do instead to avoid them.
And it also doesn't tell me that an newborn baby is going to Hell if it passes because nobody got it saved, and that if I don't devote myself to doing the absolute best thing and act perfect and ask for forgiveness all the time, I'm going to Hell, is my interpretation from years of going to church, which makes me think I need to read the Bible even more, because who knows? Maybe that's not what some other Christian believes, or maybe that's not what the Bible says specifically. Or maybe it is, and the only way to confirm it for myself is to see for myself.
As for taking Religious courses, I would consider it, but right now I would rather just focus on finishing my degree in Earth Science, and I'm also am probably going to be travelling for about ten months soon, but I'll look into the lectures and holy texts.
I decided recently that I want to learn more about Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, in that order.
Buddhism: I want to learn more about Buddhism because I noticed that some of my personal philosophy sometimes lines up with ideas from Buddhism that I never heard of before until someone mentioned it, and it seems like a lot of philosophical ideas from Buddhism seem to directly counter some negative patterns and aspects in my personality and way of thinking, not by abolishing it with hopes to just stop cold-turkey, but by teaching logic and techniques to manage and curb the patterns: Like obsession over material things, desire for others, finding a satisfactory middle ground in conflicting feelings, and more, and meditation and Yoga really does seem to help my physical and emotional state, even if it's just for the moment. Also, I like how I don't feel like I have to be completely committed to being a Buddhist while following Buddhist teachings. It would be something that I would study over the course of years in my free time, but it's hard to find out where to start because it doesn't have a single Holy text that I can just pick up and read to get a basic understanding of it, and there seems to be so much to it. I guess that can be said about other religions as well: Praying seems some-what similar to meditation, after all. I would visit the Buddhist monastery in Memphis, if I was currently IN Memphis.
Zoroastrianism: I want to study this simply because it sounds very interesting to me, and I think I can use some ideas from it in story writing. On top of that, it is my understanding that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam may or may not be some-what based off of, inspired by, or derived from Zoroastrianism, so I am hoping that by learning more about it, I could get a basis of understanding before pursuing knowledge of the other religions.
Islam: I want to learn more about it because Islam seems to be playing an increasingly important role in the mainstream world, and I want to get my own understanding of the religion and its beliefs and teachings, so that I can hopefully better understand all kinds of Muslims. Also, depending on what line of work I go into with my Earth Science degree, it will be useful knowledge. I would pick up and read the Quran, but I've heard that you need to know Arabic to read it in its purest form. Learning fluent Arabic can take awhile, but I am a little concerned that if I don't read the original writings myself or without translation from a trusted source, someone may try to tell me HOW I'm supposed to interpret it, which is not what I am looking for.
Christianity: Since this is the religion I was largely raised on, it would somehow feel wrong to study the other religions in depth, but not Christianity. I would, and most likely will, just pick up the King James Bible at home and start reading it, but I can't help but to wonder if there are other, older versions of the Bible, and whether or not the King James Bible might just be King James' interpretation. I also feel like there's a lot of history with Christianity, or all of the religions, really, that I also need to study to understand how a Christian, or Muslim, or any other type of believer thinks. I also will have some trouble trying to read the Bible critically, because I've had people telling me all my life what each verse is SUPPOSED to mean, and a part of me still sees it as a source of guidance, not something to be questioned.
Judaism: I want to study Judaism purely out of curiosity. I just want to see how Jews believe in God and how different and similar it might be to Christianity. I won't lie, another reason why I began to have an interest in learning about Judaism is because there was a kind of small Jewish student center close to my university that looked more like a club house, and basically was one. I was trying to explore new things, and find a group of people to belong in at the same time, and there were various types of churches and Christianity groups all over campus, let-alone Memphis, and I had already tried quite a few hoping to feel at home, but they all seemed so familiar, large, and almost commercial-feeling. Meanwhile, there wasn't a lot of advertisement for Jewish student groups of places of worship, and I was a bit curious about the history of Judaism, and even talked to the lady who ran the student center, where she gave me some brief overview of the belief and its place in the world today, which only made me want to explore Judaism even more.
I aim to not be hostile towards any belief, and am simply looking to learn more. I will appreciate any guidance I can get, but in the meantime, I'll keep looking for a starting point on my own.
Some folks around here despise this site, but take a look. It provides the facts, backing up what the religions teach, based on their sources.
The feeling is based on the obvious bias of the site and how the material is presented. Check out the site that HAS no dog in the race but a truthful presentation of the beliefs and practices'
If someone has such a criticism of HTTP//religioustolerance.org I would like to know about it.
There is no relationship at all if all a person ever does is read articles online and "think about it." A relationship with the Divine, regardless of the path, requires participation in contacting the Divine (i.e. prayer). And at some point involves assessing the fellowship or community you are considering, i.e. meeting the people who follow that path.
Therefore the advice AGAINST talking to practitioners of a path seems bizarre.
Again "knowledge" of something is not the same as personal participation. Reading a cook book does not make you a chef. A person has to get in the kitchen and actually do something.
I'm not sure you answered my question. How would anyone KNOW they have the same experience that you feel is a relationship with a god? Using your analogy, if I take a recipe and use it in a meal, my result will be close to yours if we both follow it. However, how would I know that I have YOUR experience? What would I use to verify this?
I didn't know Christians and Jews have their own libraries. I should definitely look into that.
Christians usually do at churches but you can find a christian book store or go to the local library. Synagogues have libraries. Some are small, some are big. We have a really good one around here and it has all kinds of Jewish books.
I do agree that I can learn a lot more about how people of a particular faith believe by going to their places of worship, but I am just a bit skeptical as to how much I can learn by doing that, unless I was to ask for specific questions about their history, philosophy, or morals to someone who knows them in depth. I feel like I've been to several churches, and the people there all worship some-what the same or in similar ways: All of the ones I've experienced have similar or same values, and believe that Christ is the only way to salvation. The "white" churches and the "black" churches and the "mixed" churches and so on worship differently in terms of movement and music, and possibly themes, but in every church, everyone is pretty much like anyone else I would meet on the streets or on campus, which makes sense.
You learn by watching and joining in. After ( or before) you meet people and ask questions. Ask about outings, classes, groups.
Whenever we would go into dialogue about the religious belief, it would be about how great God and Jesus are, and following their word and example, and half the time it is usually an attempt to convert me to Christianity, in which I respond that I'm already a COGIC follower, which isn't a lie. Other times, I actually did have interesting conversations with people I know who are devote Christians about God, the universe, and spirituality. I remember an old friend of mine who got to talking about how much do I believe in what the Bible says about Jesus and God. I thought I remembered telling him that I believed that I believe that Jesus was at least someone who truly believed in people and loved them so much that he died for their sins, and that it sounded great. I also told him that I find the story of Genesis hard to believe, and that I interpreted the idea of the Earth being created in seven days as God creating it over the course of seven-billion or seven-trillion years or something like that, and that it only seemed like seven days to God because he's an all-powerful and eternal entity. I'm not saying that is my actual scientific-based belief, but it's the only way I could rationalize the story of Genesis in my mind since I believe more in the scientific belief of how the Earth was made.
Christians are all for converting you to salvation of Jesus. ( i grew up Christian)..I have found in Judaism, its not about that. They dont even pass an offering plate! I went from a Mega church all about " how big can we grow and how much money can we get from you in the process" to a small jewish synagogue and I could not be more happy! I can say much to your thoughts on Creation
One thing that always confused me about Christianity and made me concerned about it, is how sin works: Is there really no middle-ground between Heave and Hell where someone can wait for entry into Heaven, like Limbo or Purgatory? If I commit a small sin before passing away, will I automatically go to Hell, or is it more of a sliding scale of how many good or bad things I've done over the course of my life? My pastors always made it sound like the former. Also, unborn babies go to Hell? How is that fair? Can't their souls be recycled and tried again in another body instead of something that hasn't even learned yet automatically going to a place of eternal torment? If a woman was to be the absolute sweetest woman I've ever met, always trying to do the right thing, pure as snow and never had sex or at least not outside of marriage, a complete Saint except in faith, she would still go to Hell when she dies and be tortured because she never even HEARD of God because nobody told her? Is that what the Bible actually says? And every time the answer is basically "yes, that's what the Bible says" and "it's fair because God says so and is fair." What?
In my Pentecostal/Methodist upbringing, Sin was something bad. Lying, Stealing, etc. If you live a life of sin and dont repent ( or believe in God/Jesus) you WILL go to Hell. You can ask for forgiveness of any and all sins ( and accept God or have accepted God already) and go to Heaven. According to them you will be judged when you die and if you repented and accepted God, youll go to heaven. Theres no pleading or saying sorry when youre standing infront of God. I was taught unborn babies go to heaven, they havent sinned. The bible doesnt say shed go to hell. ( at least not mine).
So as you can tell, I just feel a little conflicted about Christianity, and I feel like maybe I should critically study the Bible and find my own interpretations, at the risk of being "wrong", much like how many different sects of Christianity have different interpretations. This got a bit derailed for me, so I'm not sure if I accurately expressed my feelings about going to a place of worship for study. I guess since I've already been exposed to Christianity so much, I feel like I would do better to just study the Bible on my own and see what I think. But I think that for all the other beliefs, going to a place of worship at least once could do some good, once I get the chance.
There is so much to Christianity, its kind of crazy. Honestly, i cant tell you where to begin with it. For my husband, when he was a new believer in 2013, he started at the Mega church i was talking about and it was Non Denominational. They just talked about God/Jesus/Bible as an overview and let YOU decide.
I do think you should narrow it down ( all of the beliefs) and then go visit. Thats just what we did to find a synagogue. We literally walked in blind. We went into one NOT knowing it was Orthodox and it was 100% one of those " what did we just walk into?" moments but they were VERY nice and welcoming. We visted others and sat down to compare them. We made a check list of things we were looking for. Examples: Approachable Rabbi, Families, etc.
In the meantime, I just want to study their sacred texts so that I get a basic understanding of their beliefs, with the exception of Buddhism, which I want to study to learn more about the belief and also find some life advice. I feel like I've been given advice from Christianity a lot, but it's never been clear or satisfactory. It was always something like "just pray on it" or "turn the other cheek and love thou neighbor" or "just avoid the sin". I almost feel as if Buddhism might, and I mean MIGHT, tell me about the benefits of turning the other cheek and why it's so hard to do so, and WHY might I be attracted to sinful things and what I should think of or do instead to avoid them.
Im not an expert but Judaism is pretty basic for what they believe ( compared to some others). I like that its not preachy. Its about togetherness, sincerity, and goodness. Its not " oh my, you did that bad thing!". Im coming from 31yrs of believe in Jesus to a belief that doesnt believe in him. You know youre at the right place when the Rabbi says " just dont go around dropping Jesus bombs and youll be ok".
And it also doesn't tell me that an newborn baby is going to Hell if it passes because nobody got it saved, and that if I don't devote myself to doing the absolute best thing and act perfect and ask for forgiveness all the time, I'm going to Hell, is my interpretation from years of going to church, which makes me think I need to read the Bible even more, because who knows? Maybe that's not what some other Christian believes, or maybe that's not what the Bible says specifically. Or maybe it is, and the only way to confirm it for myself is to see for myself.
I responded to babies above. Its NOT what all Christians believe.
As for taking Religious courses, I would consider it, but right now I would rather just focus on finishing my degree in Earth Science, and I'm also am probably going to be travelling for about ten months soon, but I'll look into the lectures and holy texts.
Hopefully that helps. I WISH someone had told me to really explore when i was younger. For me, where I am now, Judaism just makes sense. It is literally like a light went off and all of the Christian in me screamed " Start asking the why and how of this, it doesnt make sense" and i had to get away from it.
I guess I'll try and clarify my post . For me , a religion should be about truth and fact . You can research theology of a religion , and through research , decide if they actually stand up factually. I don't care how nice people are or how they worship , if it's a lie , they can be as nice as nice can be , but it's still a lie .
I believe the majority of religion can be proven , through thier own texts , inaccurate as far as historical events . No , I'm not " playing the feild " at this point . I have a belief system , but it's mine , based of history and science . I believe the majority of religions do teach and preach good traits . I myself don't need to congregate around an organization to connect with a higher realm .
BUT , just as I don't need anyone knocking on my door to try to "save" me , it's also not my job to disprove them .
I guess my point was , to research the actual belief system , and not research the participants of that belief system . Because many of them will be loving nice people , but that dosn't mean that thier historical belief system is true or accurate .
I do often still research religions , just for the fact that I'm interested historically how they evolved . Because although I believe them to be inaccurate , almost written with an agenda , hold truths of long forgotten events . There are just to many similarities in alot of them , just one example is the flood .
Maybe half of my belief comes from the search of it .
I'm not sure you answered my question. How would anyone KNOW they have the same experience that you feel is a relationship with a god? Using your analogy, if I take a recipe and use it in a meal, my result will be close to yours if we both follow it. However, how would I know that I have YOUR experience? What would I use to verify this?
and you miss the point I am making.
it is not about your experience matching mine. that is not the goal, and that is not the point I am making.
The point I am making is that there IS NO relationship without a person actively participating in the relationship.
it's not about what you cook matching what I cook.
but if a person never enters the kitchen at all and just reads cookbooks and never cooks anything, there is no meal, there is no dish to serve.
if a person just reads about the Divine but never prays or otherwise actively participates in cultivating relationship, there is nothing. Do you see the difference?
and you miss the point I am making.
it is not about your experience matching mine. that is not the goal, and that is not the point I am making.
The point I am making is that there IS NO relationship without a person actively participating in the relationship.
it's not about what you cook matching what I cook.
but if a person never enters the kitchen at all and just reads cookbooks and never cooks anything, there is no meal, there is no dish to serve.
if a person just reads about the Divine but never prays or otherwise actively participates in cultivating relationship, there is nothing. Do you see the difference?
So in effect what you are saying is that everyone can have a personal perspective of what their god is. How would you know if your prayer directs you in the right direction? What signals could be replicated? Or is it just a feeling?
So in effect what you are saying is that everyone can have a personal perspective of what their god is. How would you know if your prayer directs you in the right direction? What signals could be replicated? Or is it just a feeling?
not a personal perspective of what their god is.
a personal experience
a person pays attention to their world (both inner and outer) and notices observations, perceptions, feelings, thoughts. like in any relationship there is participation, interaction and communication.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-03-2017 at 04:18 PM..
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