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For an all-powerful being responsible for the maintenance of the universe, his keen interest in what I eat for breakfast or where I put my tallywhacker does seem ... not what one would logically expect. Indeed, even being a "personal god" and having individual relationships with billions of people seems odd. Though of course, entirely possible given the trait of omnipotence.
The other problem, as you point out, (and I'm speaking as a former believer) is the utter capriciousness of his involvement. I saw a documentary last night recounting the horrible experience of a very religious couple who had three children. The eldest, a son, was clearly from the cradle totally lacking in empathy. He "thought it would be fun" to drown his sister in the pool, and had the father not noticed and intervened he would have killed her. Eventually this father had the sad task of turning his own son in for arson; he had set scores of fires all over a major city in the course of a few months and one day he saw a police sketch of his son in the newspaper.
So here is a set of parents who earnestly pray every day for god's will to be done, who raise their children to be good people, and they have to carry this heartbreak -- not least, the fact that one of the arsons was of a home for the elderly in which three elderly women perished. It seems that when you have "godly" parents trying to run their household by god's rules that this is the very place you would see god's intervention -- where it is both deserved, wanted, invited, and should be rewarded and encouraged. But no ... you have here an outcome no different than for the godless.
There are a million stories in the naked city, as they say, and this is just one of them. How god can come down and smite some hapless but otherwise harmless teenager with the clap for getting into Mary Ann's trousers on prom night, and then leave this family out to dry as if they were raising Jack the Ripper, does not inspire admiration or confidence, I'm afraid.
I don't know, don't worry about it, or care. As a former defined atheist, I no longer even have a self defined label.
Life works out, if we let it. Not always in the way I want... I am very much the epitome of Shakespeare's 'all the worlds a stage'. And I am the chief critic.
However, once I quit (daily work) playing god (ironic an atheist using the term), because it didn't work, and started letting life, or the universe, or god, or agape, or all of them (or none) be the director, my chief obstacle to serenity was removed: me.
I don't know, don't worry about it, or care. As a former defined atheist, I no longer even have a self defined label.
Life works out, if we let it. Not always in the way I want... I am very much the epitome of Shakespeare's 'all the worlds a stage'. And I am the chief critic.
However, once I quit (daily work) playing god (ironic an atheist using the term), because it didn't work, and started letting life, or the universe, or god, or agape, or all of them (or none) be the director, my chief obstacle to serenity was removed: me.
I do not see the incompatibility between letting things be as they are, and not affording belief to the unsubstantiated.
I very much regard life with detachment / unattachment to particular outcomes but this has made me more rather than less unbelieving in deities.
Perhaps it is a function of what one's theism provided. In my case it promised predictability, comprehensibility, and control, and provided none of those things. This resulted in a brief and fruitless search for alternatives that WOULD provide those things, followed by the realization that these things are not to be had. As a result I learned to let it all go ... the need for control, comprehensibility, relatability ... and just let existence be what it is. Which is, to all appearances and experiences thus far, exactly what one would expect if any deity were non-existent, indifferent and/or absent.
Eventually I even figured out there were huge upsides to all this.
I'm curious why you've dropped the label, "atheist". I don't have cause to reference it in real life ... people, at least here in the northeast, don't go around asking you about it ... but would not deny the label if asked about it either. The label, at least as I understand it, is perfectly apropos.
I do not see the incompatibility between letting things be as they are, and not affording belief to the unsubstantiated.
I very much regard life with detachment / unattachment to particular outcomes but this has made me more rather than less unbelieving in deities.
Perhaps it is a function of what one's theism provided. In my case it promised predictability, comprehensibility, and control, and provided none of those things. This resulted in a brief and fruitless search for alternatives that WOULD provide those things, followed by the realization that these things are not to be had. As a result I learned to let it all go ... the need for control, comprehensibility, relatability ... and just let existence be what it is. Which is, to all appearances and experiences thus far, exactly what one would expect if any deity were non-existent, indifferent and/or absent.
Eventually I even figured out there were huge upsides to all this.
I'm curious why you've dropped the label, "atheist". I don't have cause to reference it in real life ... people, at least here in the northeast, don't go around asking you about it ... but would not deny the label if asked about it either. The label, at least as I understand it, is perfectly apropos.
Labels limit by nature. Therefore I just don't define myself anymore. If asked I'd say I don't know.
Unattachment/detachment is in, an of itself, attachment...
Me I am very much attached to the world. Just relating something I picked up from convo's with some monks out west and some hindi's (Dravidian, Bangalore) work mates (darn outsourcing, project leading).
Yes and no. While he does give us free choice to do what we want within our nature, he does want our hearts. He is not just one little part of our lives which takes a back seat to all other things.
Pretty much. I was writing out something related on 'paper' (lol) while responding to a political question and this thread caught my eye. I kinda bounce in and out of this forum. Tried a thread on spirituality for those struggling with the God concept but it didn't go in the intended direction.
Often I find the most lasting conversations are 1 on 1 vs point counter point, at least on spirituality. I do often struggle to NOT participate in debate on other subjects... progress not perfection. Lol
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