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Arguing is generally a waste of time but i indulge myself once in awhile.
I don't underestimate logic i just recognize it's limitations. If you don't accept the inherent limitations on the procedures of logic then you're going to be unhappy because pretty much everything that you think is supposed to happen won't!
And like i said, there is detachment and objectivity .... pure witnessing. You have to discipline your mind to get to that state of pure observation ... no theories, no attitudes, no pre-sets, no programs ... to get to a place where you can see what actually IS in it's own terms.
Truth is not subject to logic or proof. It is self evident and subject to recognition outside of the abstract operation of mental effort.
Many scientists are humbled today by the awareness that their techniques of discovery/gaining knowledge is limited.
Scientists and Buddhists are holding hands.
The reason why so many people love and admire the Dali Lama (who is scientifically adept) is because he has unlimited compassion for the pain and confusion experienced by current scientists who are trying to resolve the universal enigma.
Again, may i suggest the study of Zen? This can prepare one for resolving difficulties in the pursuit of knowledge and to help one accept the universe on it's own terms. It is not dependent on a unified authority, ie; any religion that decides "this is what you have to do in order to get there".
I'm tired ... peace out.
You seem to have this idea the scientists or people who use logic are unhappy of frustrated. That is one of the most nonsensical things ever. As far as making assumptions and them not occurring, that's well and good, but that's like saying we should throw out the laws of gravity because one day, we may throw a ball in the air and it falls up. That wouldn't make sense.
For the record, scientists and Buddhists have no rivalry or disputes. Many scientists have said that Buddhism is beneficial to some. If I could pick a religion, I'd pick Buddhism. In addition, Buddhists have accepted science and evolution. I don't see what the problem is.
If atheist ruled the world then they would be quick to start killing the christians. That has happened many times in history because they see them as dangerous to their purposes.It is happening in many atheist societies like north korea and china how. Then they start killing others that they see as threatening them.They would replace god with thereselfs as we ahve seen.
If atheist ruled the world then they would be quick to start killing the christians. That has happened many times in history because they see them as dangerous to their purposes.It is happening in many atheist societies like north korea and china how. Then they start killing others that they see as threatening them.They would replace god with thereselfs as we ahve seen.
What killings have been done in the name of atheism? Name one. There hasn't been one. You're forgetting somethings. First of all...
Hitler was a Catholic..
Stalin was a Georgian Orthodox Christian..
Mao Zedong had a lot of beliefs from Chinese folk religion..
The fact that someone silences the religious doesn't mean they are atheists. Do your research.
Hitler was a professed catholic who went to church.
Can't just change his religion because you don't like what actions he took.
Yeah, as an atheist, I'm interested in killing christians. I don't think so.
Let's see how christians killed people: crusades, inquisition, salem witch trials, doctors who perform legal medical procedures; most people in jail are christian, are they not.
Hmmmmm.
Ruby, The Dalai Lama is Tibetan, and you profess zen, both of the Mahayana school. The Hinayana schools don't seem to care about any of this, it is not in the realm of their discussions that I know of. I've studied Theravada, they go by the 4 Noble Truths and Eightfold Path. Very basic.
Birth control would be made more widely available.
AND Fridays would be clothing optional day.
What do you think would be different if Atheists ruled the world?
Welll, there IS a precedent of sorts to use!
That is to say, that certain regimes in history have declared God to not exist. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Red China....and the common denominator is that all filled up a lot of concentration camps, gulags and graveyards. Made the Spanish Inquisition look like a bunch of pikers! LOL
That is to say, that certain regimes in history have declared God to not exist. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, Red China....and the common denominator is that all filled up a lot of concentration camps, gulags and graveyards. Made the Spanish Inquisition look like a bunch of pikers! LOL
These were not regimes based on atheism, nor were those atrocities committed in the name of atheism. Communism and fascism do not follow from atheism, and neither do the atrocities committed in the name of commnunism and fascism. Religion is removed from these regimes because it is a direct competitor to them -- if your people have religion, they are convinced that their sad lot in life is what god has given them, and they do nothing to change it. If religion is taken away, and the Mother Country substituted, your people will focus on what you tell them to focus on, and be much more productive, because there's no religion there to tell them what to think and do. Technically, those were not even atheistic regimes, as the leader and the country were placed in the position of the removed deities.
These were not regimes based on atheism, nor were those atrocities committed in the name of atheism. Communism and fascism do not follow from atheism, and neither do the atrocities committed in the name of commnunism and fascism. Religion is removed from these regimes because it is a direct competitor to them -- if your people have religion, they are convinced that their sad lot in life is what god has given them, and they do nothing to change it. If religion is taken away, and the Mother Country substituted, your people will focus on what you tell them to focus on, and be much more productive, because there's no religion there to tell them what to think and do. Technically, those were not even atheistic regimes, as the leader and the country were placed in the position of the removed deities.
Point acknowleged, and my original reply was a serious reply to a sem-hypothetical question based on historical reality.
But anyway, as to your own missive, I totally agree -- which IS the underlying point -- that religion was removed from these regimes because it was/is a direct competitor to the idea of a perfect humanistic state. We seem to agree on this.
And note that I never used "atheism" per se to make my point. "Atheism" is is a "personal" belief system. What these evil regimes did was to force that belief, at the point of a gun or worse, as to be orthodox...
On a related tangent, remember that old series "Twilight Zone"? There was an episode where a man was called before a "court" -- in a futuristic state -- and condemed to death because he insisted on a belief in God. He was ridiculed, abused and finally told he was "obsolete". That the "state" had "proven" God does not exist.
In reply, the man spoke the simple truth that "You fools. You can't erase God with an edict...!"
These were not regimes based on atheism, nor were those atrocities committed in the name of atheism. Communism and fascism do not follow from atheism, and neither do the atrocities committed in the name of commnunism and fascism. Religion is removed from these regimes because it is a direct competitor to them -- if your people have religion, they are convinced that their sad lot in life is what god has given them, and they do nothing to change it. If religion is taken away, and the Mother Country substituted, your people will focus on what you tell them to focus on, and be much more productive, because there's no religion there to tell them what to think and do. Technically, those were not even atheistic regimes, as the leader and the country were placed in the position of the removed deities.
And that's worked well for them? I think the nation founded on a belief in God has the best system going, hands down the greatest ever built.
It's fall will be due to forsaking and trampling the blessings and direction that God has given us, atheists have culpability in that demise.
If atheist ruled the world then they would be quick to start killing the christians. That has happened many times in history because they see them as dangerous to their purposes.It is happening in many atheist societies like north korea and china how. Then they start killing others that they see as threatening them.They would replace god with thereselfs as we ahve seen.
I'd like to address this because I can't help but feel this is the product of some backwoods preacher claiming as such to his congregation of poorly literate individuals who know nothing about the goings-on of the world. No, that was not an attack on you, I just feel that somehow this 'message' got through to people as a valid argument when it is indeed not. The only place I can think of that would make such an argument would be somewhere where world politics, geography, and history are not really at the forethought of educational studies.
I don't suspect if I recommended a TV show to people that I'd get through to everyone because many wouldn't watch it. However, if you are indeed interested, Lisa Ling, a National Geographic reporter, did an outstanding documentary on North Korea called, naturally, Inside North Korea. I don't have a link to the video as I believe it is copyrighted, but it is on the National Geographic channel quite often.
Now, let me paraphrase a bit of it and you tell me what the implications are. The reporter goes into North Korea alongside a charity cornea transplant/eye surgeon doctor to videotape the every day lives of North Koreans. What you might find is truly astonishing, sickening, and quite frankly sad. Now, if you have the courage to watch the video, might I suggest you take random notice of a few things. There is ALWAYS mention of a "Dear Leader". They MUST have pictures of him on their wall. They MUST do the song and dance and routine practices demanded of them. They MUST essentially worship their "Dear Leader" as if he were a god. Now, that's just the short and sweet of it all. I hope, I sincerely hope, that you watch the show all the way through and watch the people's reactions when the bandages are pulled off of their eyes after the transplants are done and tell me it does not scream of some askewed religious malignant odor.
Hopefully, when you watch that video something will strike in your mind that this is not rational and logical thought. This is typical dogmatic ideology that pervades religious mindsets throughout the world. I have never seen anything so utterly jaw-dropping as to the dogmatic lack of reason that the citizens of these countries have displayed and its' all predicated on is faith in their "Dear Leader" instilled by none other than fear of questioning. Nay! It is not Atheism that produces these errant societies. It is not the advancement of skepticism and freethought that has ever hurt a society. It is the dogmatic, uncharismatic, forceful, brain washing that destroys human minds and societies because people are afraid to question what they are told.
The same can be said for Stalin's USSR, and although I'd say Hitler was anything but an Atheist, it can also be said for Nazi Germany as well. The lack of reasoning and common sense supported by willful ignorance is what makes countries like North Korea, Nazi Germany, and the USSR. Not atheism. Think about it.
Last edited by GCSTroop; 03-08-2008 at 05:42 AM..
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