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Old 08-26-2008, 08:17 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,858,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostball View Post
Your argument is empty and completely rediculous Alpha.
If we do not have to obey Christ and live a holy life then I guess by your standard we can live and do as we please.
Are you married? Do you happen to have a 10 or 12 year old daughter I could come over tonight and molest? It's ok you know, because we don't have to live a holy life and it's already been forgiven.
You need to go back and re-read your Bible my friend.
I never said that and you know it.

What I said was how can you claim PART of the Law to make this point on tattoos and disregard the rest?

And you still haven't answered it.

I've ALWAYS said we have to follow Jesus' commands and obey Him if we're to be called His followers.

Should I kill that same 10 or 12 year old you asked about if they curse me?

It's right beside the verses of the Law you and others are trying to enforce here.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:21 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,858,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
A Christian perspective.

I recently had an entire lesson on this topic with my youth. And we came down to a non-answer. I believe using Levitical scripture to make your point is ignorant and irresponsible, because you're putting yourself under the old law and you must then explain to me why you don't keep all the laws in that same chapter.

Anyway, here a great article that went a long way for me:

Tattoos and Christians - Should Christians Have Tattoos?

But I just can't help but share this scripture:
I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelations 19:11-17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostball View Post
Thank you for your input regarding the laws in Leviticus. The thing that people do not understand is that it was the "rituals of the law" that we are not expected to keep. But the basic principles of the law still stand. Herein I must admit I have a problem. If we are to remember the sabbath day, to keep it Holy, do not work, because God said 6 days shalt thou work and rest on the seventh. Yet a man was stoned "killed" for gathering sticks to make a fire on the sabbath. They were to gather enough manna on the 6th day to hold them through the sabbath. Can anyone help me here?
Are we breaking the commandments if we even so much as turn our stoves on to heat water to make a cup of hot tea or coffee? How do we separate 'keeping the sabbath day Holy' and 'cooking dinner'?
I know this is a tad off the subject here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Friend, read Romans 10:4 and let's talk.

You're free, man (or woman).

You are free!

Please read through this thread and there's one more if you're interested.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...ny-graven.html
Lostball, remember these posts from a couple of months ago?

Maybe this will help.

I would appreciate you reading the thread on graven images. It's the same 'crux' of this argument.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in the middle
599 posts, read 1,258,061 times
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Quote:
Do you happen to have a 10 or 12 year old daughter I could come over tonight and molest? It's ok you know, because we don't have to live a holy life and it's already been forgiven.
Oh please ....now who's getting ridiculous? I'd like to see an answer to Alpha's question.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:37 AM
 
17 posts, read 39,970 times
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You are in desperate need of a new heart. As I know the one who can give it to you. I will petition My King Jesus to give you a new heart. When you recieve it you will see things differently. God Loves You. He asking you to come home. Will you come?
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:49 AM
 
Location: PA
2,595 posts, read 4,431,699 times
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I think I am religious to a certain degree.

I think that there is nothing wrong with Tatoos. I personally will not get one. But a tattoo is not going to prevent a person from getting into heaven. I would say though if you are a Christian and are getting a tattoo, what is the reason and what is the image that you are putting on your body. Is it something that you would be embarrased to show your parrents, preacher, God? If so, you probably should select something different.

I am also curious how it would look in a few years. Tattoos fade and the lines blurr over time. Add wrinkling folds of skin and the idea of a tattoo does not seam cool any longer. Of course if you select an image that goes out of date then you have to walk around with people scratching their heads wondering what it is you got on you. It is probably wise to stick with classic images like hearts and angels and the name of you mom (not girl friend, uless you only go out with girls with the name Judy or something), or country flag or something else that is timeless.

Remember that if you get one it is easier to be identified if you commit a crime because people remember pictures better than faces. So don't get the tattoo if you plan to do a crime. Better yet don't do the crime.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:55 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,858,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trejas View Post
You are in desperate need of a new heart. As I know the one who can give it to you. I will petition My King Jesus to give you a new heart. When you recieve it you will see things differently. God Loves You. He asking you to come home. Will you come?
Jesus was accused of some of the same things.

So I'm in good company.

A post from the thread you apparently won't read:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Since you included no commentary on that scripture, I can only assume you posted it trying to validity to the Old Testament law. I'm not saying that it isn't worthy to be valued and to try and discern it's application to our lives but I'm also a firm believer that my salvation isn't tied to a set of rules and regulations. My salvation is tied to the blood of Jesus Christ and quite clearly a new covenant was established by Jesus.

Trying to figure out if I've accidently broken one of the ten commandments does exactly what the devil wants to do: Distract me from my love for God and my service for others. Jesus said the WHOLE LAW can be summed up by this phrase: Love God, love people. That's the 'rules' I have to follow. Other than that, I set my eyes on Jesus and try and make Kingdom impact. Splitting hairs on the intricasies of a set of laws that Christ fulfilled is, in my opinon a waste of time.

Question: If I make you a promise and then fulfill that promise, what is the condition of the aforementioned promise?

It's still there, it's still valid, but it is fulfilled. It's something you should be grateful of that I accomplished what the promise was established for.

That's the application of the old law to the new covenant. Jesus is perfect, the Old Law was imperfect. Need scripture for that?

Here's just one:
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. For it is declared:
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:11-19

I won't hijack your thread by talking any further about the Old Law. I just think, as Christians, we need to focus more on the things Christ commanded us to focus on.

Having said that, please don't misinterpret what I'm saying to be that's it's OK to disobey the 10 commandments, I'm not saying that at all. If I 'Love God' I won't worship graven images. If I 'Love people' I won't steal or commit adultery etc.

I may be hyper-sensitive to this because I have been exposed to quite a bit of legalism and that, my friends, is the height of 'graven images', putting 'other gods before God' and putting the traditions of man in front of the commandments of God and thereby, as Christ Jesus said, 'nullify the Word of God.'
Now, I'll leave this to you legalists who want to undo what our Lord and Savior did on the cross.

I have not said 'It's OK to get a tattoo!"

I have not said 'It's not OK to get a tattoo!'

What I have said was summed up here Tattoos and Christians - Should Christians Have Tattoos?

I'd fight this fight until I was blue if this was in the Christianity sub-forum, but since it isn't I think I've said all I need to say here.

<shakes dust>
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:57 AM
 
1,573 posts, read 4,054,485 times
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I don't like tatoos, so I don't get one. Other people, I try not to judge them but I think alot of people will end up regretting having them. Suppose you got a tatoos you later found to be stupid or something you didn't care about?
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in the middle
599 posts, read 1,258,061 times
Reputation: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by trejas View Post
You are in desperate need of a new heart. As I know the one who can give it to you. I will petition My King Jesus to give you a new heart. When you recieve it you will see things differently. God Loves You. He asking you to come home. Will you come?
Is this directed at me? I need a new heart because I'm thinking about getting a tattoo? My heart is just fine, thank you. I am home already...safe in the knowlege that God loves me and that we no longer have to live under the law because of what Jesus did on the cross! Do you follow all of the Old Testament law? If not, your argument is null and void.
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:18 AM
 
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
2,179 posts, read 7,002,259 times
Reputation: 1012
Ignore him, Deb...it really is your personal choice and you know in your own heart what is right and true for yourself. My 17-year-old grandson recently had a tattoo done on his upper back...it is the silhouette of a man riding into the clouds on a dirtbike and under it, in a ribbon-like banner it say "In memory ~ Dad". My son died eight years ago...my grandson had this tattoo done to honor his father's memory. If there is a God who cares about such things (*I am a Diest) I am sure he approves.
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:30 AM
 
17 posts, read 39,970 times
Reputation: 11
Oh, I understood your point about Lev. 19.

God is sovereign, meaning he requires no one to exist. As such he his the only one who can make law and the only one who has the power to enforce it. His word is law. But, you must understand God's Law. God's Law is divided into Laws, Statues and Ordinances. The Book of Leviticus is a book of ordinances given to Moses from God to assist God's people in living to the way he designed them to be. They help create a culture for a community. Those of this community must comply to these ordinances or they are not apart of this community.

All the Ordinances in Leviticus are for the Hebrew (Jewish) community of its day. Today, Gentiles (Non-Jews) those that are born of God are graffed into the the Jewish Community by the work of Jesus. But, we are not required to obey the ordinances because we are graffed in and not born a Jew. But, we respect and honor our Father's word. God, Our Fathers' word is no tattoo's, if you love him you will obey him. Because it is your heart desire to do so.

One last thing, If you are not a citizen of the Kingdom of God then you are not required to obey God's Law. Because you live in the Kingdom Of Darkness and it's okay in your culture to have tattoo's. In he Kingdom of Light (God's Kingdom)-- no tattoo's.
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