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If only you were. Then you'd know that playing the fallacy of numbers when you surely know that it's irrelevant (and I hardly need say yet again that the soundness of argument, not the amount of it, is what counts) is undermining you because it shows the way you argue and the why - because you have nothing better - and you still...I truly believe... think it is winning you something.
And we still await Tzaph's definition of 'intuition'. I can make a guess at it: Divine Inspiration.
If only you were. Then you'd know that playing the fallacy of numbers when you surely know that it's irrelevant (and I hardly need say yet again that the soundness of argument, not the amount of it, is what counts) is undermining you because it shows the way you argue and the why - because you have nothing better - and you still...I truly believe... think it is winning you something.
And we still await Tzaph's definition of 'intuition'. I can make a guess at it: Divine Inspiration.
The arguments backing Pantheism are perfectly sound...the 1st time to the millionth.
And the LOBBUNE Doctrine will be be illogical and unreasonable from the 1st time to forever. Tzaph understands "intuition" perfectly...unlike the Atheists in this exchange with her. That is obvious.
God either exists just as you suppose that He does, or God never existed to begin with. By their very nature these two positions represent the extreme opposites of each other. And yet one is right, and one is wrong. Depth of conviction cannot change that fact.
The foundation of all interpersonal relationships for humans living together in a society is the golden rule. The standard that not doing unto others the things that you would not wish done unto you covers about 99% of situations.
But let's look at the 10 Commandments.
[1]No other gods before me
[2]No graven images or likenesses
[3]Not take the LORD's name in vain
[4]Remember the sabbath day
If no God ever existed to begin with, the first four commandments are totally meaningless.
[5]Honour thy father and thy mother
The unfortunate truth is that not all fathers and mothers deserve to be honored. This commandment imposes an obligation, as a point of law, which may NOT always be deserved.
[6]Thou shalt not kill
[7]Thou shalt not commit adultery
[8]Thou shalt not steal
[9]Thou shalt not bear false witness
All four of these commandments are automatically covered covered by the golden rule.
[10]Thou shalt not covet
It is the nature of humans to covet what others have. Coveting is not the problem. It is acting on coveting by attempting to take what others have that is the problem. And that is covered by numbers 6 through 9 of the commandments. And also by the golden rule.
Ten commandments are not needed. Six out of the ten are useless. Everything needed to understand and sustain morality is covered by the golden rule. And the concept of the golden rule is vastly older than Christianity.
Exodus 21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
26"If a man strikes the eye of his male or female slave, and destroys it, he shall let him go free on account of his eye.
27"And if he knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let him go free on account of his tooth.…
Lev.22:
11"But if a priest buys a slave as his property with his money, that one may eat of it, and those who are born in his house may eat of his food."
The Bible sets standards by which a master might own others and legally and morally abuse his property.
What the Bible, the very word of God, according to believers, DOES NOT DO is prohibit, condemn or IN ANY WAY IMPLY, that slavery is wrong or immoral. Humankind has made that leap of morality entirely WITHOUT any prompting or encouragement from the Biblical God. Because it is apparent that those who are in a position to enslave others can just as easily be placed into a position of being enslaved by others. Slavery is now considered to not only be morally wrong, it is against the law right around the world. God certainly did not outlaw it. Human beings came to a higher sense of morality than the one found in the Bible. The elimination of slavery is a shining example of the golden rule in action. Slavery IS NOT outlawed by the ten commandments. But humans can and have aspired to a higher standard of morality than the one found in the Bible.
I do not equate the things written in the bible with God. I don't even say that the bible is the word of God. Just F.Y.I.
Why do you think this [evil] is God's doing?
Are you saying God controls every little thing that happens in this world?
If God did that, then we would have no choices to make would we?
Ultimate Creator?
Omnipotent?
Free-will in Heaven/after-life?
Why do you think this is God's doing?
Are you saying God controls every little thing that happens in this world?
If God did that, then we would have no choices to make would we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
Ultimate Creator?
Omnipotent?
Free-will in Heaven/after-life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic
Your point escapes me.
1. Everything that exists or happens is the ultimate "doing" of a proposed "ultimate Creator."
2. An Omnipotent God (commonly asserted by monotheists) does, in fact, have the ability to control everything.
3. If evil doesn't exist in heaven/after-life... Does that mean God is controlling things so tightly as to remove free-will? Would you have choices to make in a heaven or an after-life? If evil is a necessity of "better existence" (because of choice), then how could evil ever end without also ending choice. If it can end, then it never needed to exist in the first place (when considering an omnipotent God).
All you have to do is not avoid thinking, then you'd have a thousand ways of interpreting what I meant by each Socratic question that I posed in response to your questions. Although, I admit, they were a bit lacking in context unless you went back to each question and compared your post one-by-one. I thought quoting you and restructuring your sentence placement was going to do the trick, but that is almost like expecting you to get an inside joke, please excuse that. I hope I have now made what I meant a bit clearer.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 02-25-2017 at 12:10 AM..
1. Everything that exists or happens is the ultimate "doing" of a proposed "ultimate Creator."
2. An Omnipotent God (commonly asserted by monotheists) does, in fact, have the ability to control everything.
3. If evil doesn't exist in heaven/after-life... Does that mean God is controlling things so tightly as to remove free-will? Would you have choices to make in a heaven or an after-life? If evil is a necessity of "better existence" (because of choice), then how could evil ever end without also ending choice. If it can end, then it never needed to exist in the first place (when considering an omnipotent God).
All you have to do is not avoid thinking, then you'd have a thousand ways of interpreting what I meant by each Socratic question that I posed in response to your questions. Although, I admit, they were a bit lacking in context unless you went back to each question and compared your post one-by-one. I thought quoting you and restructuring your sentence placement was going to do the trick, but that is almost like expecting you to get an inside joke, please excuse that. I hope I have now made what I meant a bit clearer.
Again...you keep arguing the abilities, motivations, and actions or lack thereof, of A METAPHORICAL ENTITY in a book written THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO...by men working with the level of knowledge and technical aptitude they had at that time.
Then you critique it based upon the modern standards of this current advanced society.
Don't you see how inane it is to do that? Is your desire to mock and insult The Bible and Christian Theology so overwhelming that you feel you *must* do it?
Wow...no wonder the Atheists are one of the least trusted and most hated groups there is!
Look...like you've already been told in this thread...it is obvious you have a "thing" about God Belief. That is more than obvious.
But the least you could do is quit with the bogus and silly arguments about the attitude, decisions, and conduct of the being that is not only just an allegorical character that doesn't actually exist...but you claim you already know that.
It was probably inevitable that 'absurdity of life without God' would turn into a debate about God and Bible being true. After all, that was probably the point of the OP anyway.
But if anything came out of the last couple of posts (apart from Gldnrule's dirty tricks of using the Christian -stoked distrust of atheists - in the US, at least - as Bad evidence against their being right) it is God -belief doesn't have to mean Bible belief.
But what I'd then ask Gldnrule (In the hope of getting something meaningful out of him ) and Rainmusic (in Wales, I play quite a lot of that ) is, if the Bible is irrelevant and God is a non -specific sortagod of all religions and none, what does it matter whether that god exists or not (other than out of academic interest)?.And why do we need religion at all and would life really be absurd without either "God" or religion?
It was probably inevitable that 'absurdity of life without God' would turn into a debate about God and Bible being true. After all, that was probably the point of the OP anyway.
But if anything came out of the last couple of posts (apart from Gldnrule's dirty tricks of using the Christian -stoked distrust of atheists - in the US, at least - as Bad evidence against their being right) it is God -belief doesn't have to mean Bible belief.
But what I'd then ask Gldnrule (In the hope of getting something meaningful out of him ) and Rainmusic (in Wales, I play quite a lot of that ) is, if the Bible is irrelevant and God is a non -specific sortagod of all religions and none, what does it matter whether that god exists or not (other than out of academic interest)?.And why do we need religion at all and would life really be absurd without either "God" or religion?
I don't consider the bible irrelevant. But I don't consider it the innerant, infallible word of God. When Jesus was walking the earth, THE BIBLE did not exist. A group of religious/political men held a council and decided to put 66 "books" or "booklets" together and stamp the title HOLY BIBLE on the front. I rely on the Spirit of God to lead me into the truth and into the path of righteousness. It would seem that many Christians have a personal relationship with a book that turns them kind of ugly.
Last edited by RainMusic; 02-25-2017 at 04:03 AM..
Reason: Bolding
1. Everything that exists or happens is the ultimate "doing" of a proposed "ultimate Creator."
2. An Omnipotent God (commonly asserted by monotheists) does, in fact, have the ability to control everything.
3. If evil doesn't exist in heaven/after-life... Does that mean God is controlling things so tightly as to remove free-will? Would you have choices to make in a heaven or an after-life? If evil is a necessity of "better existence" (because of choice), then how could evil ever end without also ending choice. If it can end, then it never needed to exist in the first place (when considering an omnipotent God).
All you have to do is not avoid thinking, then you'd have a thousand ways of interpreting what I meant by each Socratic question that I posed in response to your questions. Although, I admit, they were a bit lacking in context unless you went back to each question and compared your post one-by-one. I thought quoting you and restructuring your sentence placement was going to do the trick, but that is almost like expecting you to get an inside joke, please excuse that. I hope I have now made what I meant a bit clearer.
I will come back to this when I have more time, but I want to answer briefly by saying that I don't believe we have complete "free will" even though we have choices. What I mean by this is that we have preferences, but even so, we cannot have whatever we want simply by saying I want this or that, so that already demonstrates that we don't have complete free will. Our wills are in competition with the other billions of free wills on the planet. Also, the purpose of being subjected to evil and suffering is to manifest virtue -- to make it known. I believe that in heaven we will all be of ONE MIND. I will try to write more on this after I've had some rest.
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think it is winning you something.
) and Rainmusic (in Wales, I play quite a lot of that 
) is, if the Bible is irrelevant and God is a non -specific sortagod of all religions and none, what does it matter whether that god exists or not (other than out of academic interest)?.And why do we need religion at all and would life really be absurd without either "God" or religion?
