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It is LEARNING that shuts children off from the world of experiences by circumscribing what is possible and what is not. An infant has to learn to separate the "in here" (I am) from the "out there" (things separate from itself) because it does not originally make any such distinction. What Miss H is describing is a retention of the original experience of oneness that has not been completely overridden by learning. It is also the state I achieved in deep meditation that completely changed my life.
You mean it's classical CONDITIONING that shuts people off from objective truths.
When a person learns how to properly meditate and learns to recognize that experience...this does not shut them off from the world.
When a person learns how to stop the mind chatter and still their thoughts...this does not shut them off from the world.
A simple definition: Learning is a change in behavior resulting from experience; in evolutionary terms, learning is an adaptive change in behavior that results from experience.
Classical conditioning: Recall Pavlov's dog experiment? Pavlov originally studied the physiology of salivation, for which he won the Nobel Prize. In the course of this research, he became aware of a kind of learning, which today is called, “classical conditioning.” Sometimes, it is also referred to a “Pavlovian conditioning”
I think it makes perfect sense to be bitter about a God that hides itself ...
Hi Pleroo,
Sure, if one is thinking that is 'His'* duty, I suppose. I personally do not think that...
nor that 'His' ego needs to be stroked...
I get mad initially at my hammer when I hit my thumb...then I laugh and
figure out a different way to hold it.
Point being:To stay in bitterness about anything doesn't really foster learning, understanding, awakening,
finding a solution...there is no conflict resolution with calm when one nurses and has a cyclical
ruminating of their bitterness...childhood wrongs comes to mind...what good
does it do to keep harping on your bad childhood...or the damn hammer or the God
that is so hard to experience.
I don't find decades of anger (oh brother, my mother and her father!) to accomplish much.
If a person doesn't 'get something', ok, no problem...detach yourself from it...but, to argue
your point over and over ad nauseum...I saw that my whole life accomplish nothing...
unrelated to God.
*'His' for the ease of writing
Oh...I think I will add this: God to me is very much like a child, a little boy playing, sweet and
often shy...wanting to be invited to come over...adventurous, ever full of wonder...
(I didn't make that up...that is my personal experience.)
Hi Pleroo,
Sure, if one is thinking that is 'His'* duty, I suppose. I personally do not think that...
nor that 'His' ego needs to be stroked...
I get mad initially at my hammer when I hit my thumb...then I laugh and
figure out a different way to hold it.
Point being:To stay in bitterness about anything doesn't really foster learning, understanding, awakening,
finding a solution...there is no conflict resolution with calm when one nurses and has a cyclical
ruminating of their bitterness...childhood wrongs comes to mind...what good
does it do to keep harping on your bad childhood...or the damn hammer or the God
that is so hard to experience.
I don't find decades of anger (oh brother, my mother and her father!) to accomplish much.
If a person doesn't 'get something', ok, no problem...detach yourself from it...but, to argue
your point over and over ad nauseum...I saw that my whole life accomplish nothing...
unrelated to God.
*'His' for the ease of writing
Oh...I think I will add this: God to me is very much like a child, a little boy playing, sweet and
often shy...wanting to be invited to come over...adventurous, ever full of wonder...
(I didn't make that up...that is my personal experience.)
I did...but that first part got my attention...sorry. Felt to address that ...prob because I see the
bitterness and anger so often here. You know, felt it was a good time as any to say 'my thing'.
Did you want me to address something else? I will.
I went back and read it slowly again...I liked it! Good one!
I did...but that first part got my attention...sorry. Felt to address that ...prob because I see the
bitterness and anger so often here. You know, felt it was a good time as any to say 'my thing'.
Did you want me to address something else? I will.
I went back and read it slowly again...I liked it! Good one!
Okay. It just seemed like you thought I was disagreeing with you, but we were essentially saying the same thing.
It seems like atheists are growing in numbers. I'm not really sure if they are, or if it is just that we live in a society where everyone feels compelled to be "out" about everything they think. I have never been able to understand atheists because I have believed in God since I was first walking and talking. I don't know if atheists are born with something different than what I was dealt. I don't know if atheists have to constantly find ways to cling to unbelief. I just know that a universe and life without God seems absurd to me. I read a good article about it just a while ago:
I did not even believe when I was a small child, probably because while one grandmother was very catholic, the grandparents I was most exposed to were atheists. My mother was agnostic and my father went from catholic to atheist. My husband is also an atheist, though he was raised baptist and his mother was extremely religious and very, very active in church and insistent her children attend church every Sunday, go to Sunday School, read the bible every day, pray every night, etc. As soon as he left home, he started questioning everything and came to the conclusion that there is absolutely no truth in organized religion and the bible is basically a book of made-up stories. It's not a matter of clinging to unbelief, it's a matter of being just as sure there is no deity and religion is false as religious people are sure there is a deity and religion is the truth.
I did not even believe when I was a small child, probably because while one grandmother was very catholic, the grandparents I was most exposed to were atheists. My mother was agnostic and my father went from catholic to atheist. My husband is also an atheist, though he was raised baptist and his mother was extremely religious and very, very active in church and insistent her children attend church every Sunday, go to Sunday School, read the bible every day, pray every night, etc. As soon as he left home, he started questioning everything and came to the conclusion that there is absolutely no truth in organized religion and the bible is basically a book of made-up stories. It's not a matter of clinging to unbelief, it's a matter of being just as sure there is no deity and religion is false as religious people are sure there is a deity and religion is the truth.
Haha, what a hodge podge...like my family.
Organized religion and I are like oil and water.
We had Catholics, Methodists, the Don't Cares and no Bible in sight.
"God" means an invisible, omnipresent -all-knowing being, which is probably the size of Everything (or bigger) and probably...I'd say near exclusively, intentionally made it all.
The life of God is also a part of God, and is God. So too the word of God, the will of God, and all that they bear.
You mean it's classical CONDITIONING that shuts people off from objective truths.
All conditioning is learning whether classical or operant. It is the cognitive learning that circumscribes and interferes with the pure experience of reality.
Quote:
When a person learns how to properly meditate and learns to recognize that experience...this does not shut them off from the world.
When a person learns how to stop the mind chatter and still their thoughts...this does not shut them off from the world.
This explains to me, at least, why your experiences in meditation do not mirror mine. When I meditate, my entire conscious focus and control are inward and I am completely cut off from the outside world, especially in deep meditation.
Quote:
A simple definition: Learning is a change in behavior resulting from experience; in evolutionary terms, learning is an adaptive change in behavior that results from experience.
Classical conditioning: Recall Pavlov's dog experiment? Pavlov originally studied the physiology of salivation, for which he won the Nobel Prize. In the course of this research, he became aware of a kind of learning, which today is called, “classical conditioning.” Sometimes, it is also referred to a “Pavlovian conditioning”
Clarification for the masses???
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Good one!
