"Defend" Your Side (He Exists or Maybe He Doesn't)! (Muslim, worship)

[TRANSPONDER]

Nope, bullcrap is all on your side. Not least Captain Obvious statements like 'we are the universe' as though only You know this and are imparting Wisdom, and then damn' your impidence use that to support your claim that your vituperations about atheism are just as 'right'. You are a sadly deluded and biased man chum.

P.s I'll actually pick this up...

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

...

My lack of belief does not effect the compassion in any way. My atheism does not effect the answer for me anymore than holding a meter stick up against a table leg and saying 92.33 cm.

Can you say the same thing?

No. I can say that since knowing I was atheist and thinking about the implications of atheism has made me a more compassionate and just person than I was before.

Yours seems to have made you bitter and hateful about anything "Liberal" and any kind of atheism that seems to be on the "Liburl" side.

[LuminousTruth]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

...

That is your prerogative, Luminous. The Christian aspects of my views are beliefs grounded in personal experiences and their agreement with recorded descriptions in the spiritual fossil record about God. My belief in God, however, is a function of science and logic and plausible inferences from them.

...
Again, your prerogative, but in this instance, you are writing off God because of a preference for ignorance. You do NOT know what our reality IS (or why it IS) but you are certain it is NOT God. That is your preference, but it has no substantiation whatever because, in the final analysis, you do NOT know WHAT it is so you can NOT know what it is NOT.

I suspect that you'd have Muslim aspects of your views "as" beliefs grounded in personal experiences and grounded in their agreement with recorded description in the spiritual fossil record about Allah, had you been born and raised in Arabia under constant influence from Muslims.

I don't write off "God" or "SuperGod" or "ExtraSuperGod" or "HyperExtraSuperGod" because of any preference for ignorance. I haven't even written off Unicorns or the Flying Spaghetti Monster yet. No need to. Whatever ample amount of self-righteousness I do carry has never soiled me with self-deception in the form of holding metaphysical certainties in the emotional centers of my brain. I don't ever even hold physicalist certainties, so I am clean and free in that regard as well.

If you can NOT know WHAT it is NOT, then you cannot know WHAT it is. A more balanced equation then the one you prescribed. Have you ever played the game 20-Questions?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Originally Posted by Timray

Greetings!

Part 1 (For the Atheists to address):

1. Imagine (for a minute or two) that you are a Christian,
Imagine that you're in a Debate Online (City-Data.com, Religion And Spirituality Forum)
This Debate is on "The Existence Of God".

What argument(s) (as far as Evidence For The Existence Of God is concerned), would you present to the "Opposition" in your attempt(s) to "convince" them that there are Sound reasons to believe in God's existence?

I am not aware of any argument for the existence of God that I find to be in any way compelling.

People often confirm that God is there for them answering their prayers. When they get that promotion they have been praying for, or when their team wins the big game. Just as they prayed it would. And yet when a psycho comes into a classroom full of six year old's armed with a handgun and an intent to shooting each one in the head at point blank range, or when a tornado causes a brick church wall to collapse on and kill worshipers in the very ACT of praying to God... in other words when faith comes face to face with physical reality, physical reality inevitably prevails. And God is nowhere to be found. A God who is not there for these individuals and who does not act at a moment of extreme physical peril is in no way different from a God who never existed to begin with.

In 1994 a tornado hit the Goshen Alabama Methodist Church during Sunday service, causing the walls of the church to collapse. Twenty people died including six children. Why would God allow the deaths of those in His own house of worship, including the most innocent, who were there in the very act of worshiping him, when all He had to do was to prevent the walls from collapsing? The problem is that when put to the test, make believe is invariably unaffected by the harsh realities of real life. If a wall falls on you, or a mad man shoots you in the head, make believe does not serve as protection. Even for innocent children.
Piedmont Journal - Tried by Deadly Tornado, An Anchor of Faith Holds - NYTimes.com

In 2012, after shooting and killing his own mother, a mentally unstable man went to the Sandy Hook Elementary School and methodically shot 20 six year olds and a teacher in the head. A Supreme Being would really have come in handy that day. Did God just sit there and watch the whole thing? Or was he distracted, too busy fulfilling the mundane prayers of others? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_...chool_shooting

The point is, in real life what we actually observe is that when the chips are down and faith is confronted by reality, reality will ALWAYS win out. When the chips are down and a Supreme Being would really REALLY come in handy, God, invisible unknowable but assumed to exist anyway God, will invariably act in exactly the same manner as a God who isn't actually there. In fact a God who refuses to act even in the face of the ultimate crisis of life and death for the most innocent of His followers is a God who corresponds in every way to A GOD WHO NEVER EXISTED TO BEGIN WITH! What exactly is the difference? This is as close to an empirical test for the actual existence of God as one might reasonably hope for. And in these sorts of make or break tests, the result for the question "does God exist," invariably corresponds in every way to a negative finding.

Now let me make it clear. I do not blame God for what occurred at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, in exactly the same way that I hold no grudge against Santa for not ACTUALLY coming to my house each Christmas.

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

Nope, bullcrap is all on your side. Not least Captain Obvious statements like 'we are the universe' as though only You know this and are imparting Wisdom, and then damn' your impidence use that to support your claim that your vituperations about atheism are just as 'right'. You are a sadly deluded and biased man chum.

P.s I'll actually pick this up...



No. I can say that since knowing I was atheist and thinking about the implications of atheism has made me a more compassionate and just person than I was before.

Yours seems to have made you bitter and hateful about anything "Liberal" and any kind of atheism that seems to be on the "Liburl" side.

yeah, sure, whatever. You are placing your emotion on my post. Hold the meter stick up to a table leg and record the measurement. There is that much emotion for me. to bad you needed a belief system like atheism to teach you compassion. sounds like some theist i know. But whatever it takes to keep rational people safe, I am for. So you believe away.

you can't make the comparison because the measurement won't lie. There is no play on emotional responses once we record the data. You lose. You know full well the observation will trump your belief system. thats why you play silly word games and run away.

so do you want to make the comparison/measurement?
or do you want, and need to, stay in the safety confines of your belief statements?

what was it you said before ... oh yeah ... some believe son strongly in anti-religion that you will stop at nothing, including dismissal of facts, avoidance of observation, and flat out lying to deceive people into following your religion. same ol' same ol' from religious people.

If you don't make a measurement then all you have is hear say, personal opinion, and emotional needs.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by Dunedin1

Defend my belief in God? Why? HE needs no defending.

True.
Even with the OPs "argue the other side" twist...it still comes down to either God Exists or God Does Not Exist.

See..."GOD" doesn't need to provide "proof" to anyone.
I mean...why demand something as weak and wimpy as "proof" or "evidence" when you have SUPER MOJO to back you up?!

Oh, I know...all the Atheist dissenters will break out "Burden of Proof" demands.

And, "Burden of proof" would be on the "God Exists" claim...all else being equal--But, all things ARE NOT equal.

When you are the veeeeeeeeery slight minority...contesting the worldwide "Standard"...that's a totally different story.
God Belief has been the "Norm" (8to9 out of 10) for THOOOOOOOUSANDS of years. It's the "incumbent position"...the "ruling viewpoint"...the "champion concept"! "God Exists" doesn't have to prove itself...it currently "holds office"! It's upon the weak challenger (Atheism) of nearly negligible merit/influence to prove itself. So far it's gotten steamrolled and flattened, in every "race". If it were seen as an "election"...Atheism would be viewed as being defeated in the biggest landslide EVER.

It's actually a joke that the insignificant pipsqueak Challenger with a 1W-9L record would have the nerve to "call out" the REEEEEEEIGNING, AND DEFENNNNNNDING, UNNNNNN-DE-FEATED, CHAAAAAAAM-PI-OOOOOOON CONNNNNNNCEPT, OOOOOOF THE WORRRRRRRLD...and demand it "prove" itself. LOL!

And anyone can blow off with all the "ad Pop/Logical Fallacy" rebuttals they want...but the Atheist viewpoint STILL won't ever do anything but get trounced in The Arena Of World Merit.

And before anyone gets all mentally irregular...I hold Atheism in higher regard, and view it as superior to many concepts. I'm just pointing out the REALITY as to what "the way of the world" is.

"GOD EXISTS" is the looooooong established WORLD STANDARD...and anyone that wants to contest that, is going to have to prove THEIR case.
BTW...good luck with that...so far "The God Exists Concept" has "taken on all challengers" for thousands of years and "dusted them" like they weren't even there.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by Timray

Greetings!

Part 1 (For the Atheists to address):

1. Imagine (for a minute or two) that you are a Christian,
Imagine that you're in a Debate Online (City-Data.com, Religion And Spirituality Forum)
This Debate is on "The Existence Of God".

What argument(s) (as far as Evidence For The Existence Of God is concerned), would you present to the "Opposition" in your attempt(s) to "convince" them that there are Sound reasons to believe in God's existence?

Which god are you referring to?

Since you want us to imagine (for a minute or two) that you are a Christian , I will presume you are referring to the christian god. If so, which god are you wanting to know about? The god in the OT or the NT?

There are many gods out there today and many 1000's of others that have been invented since humans first began inventing gods.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Which god are you referring to?

Since you want us to imagine (for a minute or two) that you are a Christian , I will presume you are referring to the christian god. If so, which god are you wanting to know about? The god in the OT or the NT?

There are many gods out there today and many 1000's of others that have been invented since humans first began inventing gods.

Hey Matie...try this:
Argue from the standpoint of the perception of God held by Pantheists like me..."ALL/EVERYTHING" (The Universe).
The Religious Deities are metaphorical representations of the make-up and actions of The Universe and that which comprises it...and do not actually exist in Reality. So arguing their existence is a tough contract.
Argue the existence of the God that Pantheism reveres...it's easy, and irrefutable!

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

Hey Matie...try this:
Argue from the standpoint of the perception of God held by Pantheists like me..."ALL/EVERYTHING" (The Universe).
The Religious Deities are metaphorical representations of the make-up and actions of The Universe and that which comprises it...and do not actually exist in Reality. So arguing their existence is a tough contract.
Argue the existence of the God that Pantheism reveres...it's easy, and irrefutable!

Possibly something from the unholy trinity worth bothering with. Gods as symbols of ...the actuality? Just a bit of fun really. Not to be taken seriously. I can live with that. But to be an "Ist" about it. Idiotic.

Matadora, what do you think? If you even think it worth bothering with.

[LuminousTruth]

Originally Posted by Dunedin1

Defend my belief in God? Why? HE needs no defending.

the O.P. wrote

"Defend" Your side

, not "defend your belief in God" which either way would by no way mean "Defend God" which would equate "God" with "belief in God"... What beliefs of the many and contradictory ones out there do you have?

[skepticratic]

You cannot prove something's non existence and the belief in God is not rooted in evidence. Your debate should also be atheist vs theist as Christians don't have a monopoly on belief in a deity (or deities).