Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I feel it would be wasted effort Rafffael old spoon, as they are either dickering over the way to Interpret "Paradise". Many mansions" or "Darkness" or popping in 'Praise Jesus! He is King!!!" posts which will garner a bagful of reps but probably not contribute much to discussion. I may be wrong, but I feel those who are more willing to listen will come here,...
I feel it would be wasted effort Rafffael old spoon, as they are either dickering over the way to Interpret "Paradise". Many mansions" or "Darkness" or popping in 'Praise Jesus! He is King!!!" posts which will garner a bagful of reps but probably not contribute much to discussion. I may be wrong, but I feel those who are more willing to listen will come here, and I would rather not do bombruns on the city of God.
I am ok antique art and the use of festivals as fun and perhaps making a point.
I do not care for modern art, music, or other artforms used for religion. "Your art and music are up to date - why aren't you?" But then what do we use Art for "The DNA cantata?" "Tryptich...professor X presents his thesis to the head of subatomic studies...?" no, maybe superstition and fairy tales are necessary for entertainment.
But in what is supposed to be Informative, it grates when what are known relevant points are passed over, and nearly always in favour of Gospel Jesus. You may well be shown with earnest Expression...
"This is a Roman Tiberian silver sestertius..probably the coin that was shown to Jesus when he asked whose head was on it...."
Or probably not....They won't mention that this couldn't have been in the treasury (as the account says) as the pagan money was changed in the Stoa as the gospels tell us. Even if they went to get a Pagan coin from the money -changers, they'd never bring it into the sacred precinct. The story is probably just a later explanation of why it is ok for Christians to pay taxes to Caesar. And who better to explain than Jesus?
I know by the way that the story doesn't appear in John but I have an idea it is only in 2 of the synoptics (which demands a Bible footnote..."later addition by anonymous editor to the original Synoptic gospel..." which we probably won't get.)
I'm sure it was in the Temple...in the Treasury, specifically---hang on...
in Matthew 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.......
Context: Matt 22:17So tell us what You think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
Context: Matt 22:17So tell us what You think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
Not quite sure what you are asking here. Context about modern use of money, context of Christians paying taxes to a pagan - Roman -administration (which is what I think is the meaningful context) or the context setting of the story - which I did deal with, I thought. it doesn't werk as a feasible story in the Temple.
The "difference" is passive entertainment/active expression.
The entertainment is more active - in emotion too -than the entertained. I've forgotten the context now.
...I got this:
Oh, yeah, one more: we are not talking about "entertainment," but "expression" of feelings. There's a difference.
But I couldn't find the subject. Something about religious Fesivals imparting feeling more than just entertaining. well, yes, as I say I get more feeling from great music than from any religious context it may have. The religious may find the other, but it is a question of what we bring to it, yes?
Not quite sure what you are asking here. Context about modern use of money, context of Christians paying taxes to a pagan - Roman -administration (which is what I think is the meaningful context) or the context setting of the story - which I did deal with, I thought. it doesn't werk as a feasible story in the Temple.
My original note was about your post 108 in which you claimed that they would not have shown a pagan coin to Jesus, apparently thinking that they would have had access only to Jewish coins for some reason. The point I made was that they were speaking of a Roman tax paid with Roman money. Why would you think that the coin could only have come from the Temple treasury just because they happened to be in the Temple?
My original note was about your post 108 in which you claimed that they would not have shown a pagan coin to Jesus, apparently thinking that they would have had access only to Jewish coins for some reason. The point I made was that they were speaking of a Roman tax paid with Roman money. Why would you think that the coin could only have come from the Temple treasury just because they happened to be in the Temple?
That wasn't quite my point, though two of them (the widows' leptons or prutah) imply that Jesus was in the treasury(1) and you were either in or out. Unless you were peering through the Susa gate or down from the galleries.
In fact the idea that Jesus 'sat down opposite' is meaningless since wherever you sat - on a bench outside the Lepers' court or on the steps of the Nicanor gate you would be facing some offering receptacle or other. The writer did not know what the treasury was like.
But treasury or no, even if one might bring a roman coin into the court of the gentiles (it ought to have been changed into temple silver at the stoa/market) they would not be allowed to take it into the court of women and treasury and nobody would bring a pagan coin into it.
Now, you may say that the action covers several days and coming and going, but the context indicates this is all on One day - the day Jesus processed to the Temple and slung the traders out, and was all part of a one -day wrangle with the Sadducces, Pharisees, Lawyers, Herodians and anyone else who wasn't a Jesus-follower.
(1) the treasury was - so far as the archaeological/ historical view goes, within the wall separating the court of the women (through the Susa gate)from the court of the gentiles Indeed the 'Treasury' was trumpet -shaped offering receptacles within the court of the women so both sexes could make appropriate offerings.
But treasury or no, even if one might bring a roman coin into the court of the gentiles (it ought to have been changed into temple silver at the stoa/market) they would not be allowed to take it into the court of women and treasury and nobody would bring a pagan coin into it....
No, they would only be required to change it if the money were being OFFERED.
Seriously, why in blue tunket are you trying to discredit a perfectly normal story illustrating a good point of secular life in relation to spiritual?
No, they would only be required to change it if the money were being OFFERED.
Seriously, why in blue tunket are you trying to discredit a perfectly normal story illustrating a good point of secular life in relation to spiritual?
Because he Temple would only accept ritually pure silver. Originally Tyrian silver, they minted their own. Pagan money (Roman) was changed in the market money -changers stalls so they could buy ritually pure beasts for sacrifice. Pagan money may have been permitted in the court of the Gentiles, but no further.
Why I am trying to "discredit" it, is because it shows that it was written by people who did not understand what was possible there (going and fetching a Roman Penny or Greek denarius) and so the story is void or reliability. Any point made is thus down to its' own merits, such as they are.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
