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For the bible to be considered a God given book, I expect it to be inerrant and pass scientific scrutiny.
Apparently you DO need word lectures from me because the definitions if jive in your link don't jibe with your usage either.
As for "God given book" if you don't see that, then don't believe it. Most Christians don't, at least in the sense that you believe they do. Catch up, fundamentalist mentality is NOT Christianity, it is a small part of the spectrum.
Last edited by nateswift; 04-09-2017 at 09:27 AM..
So for example, Abraham, Noah, Moses etc,,, these were God's chosen men. So all of their followers will go to hell because Jesus is the ONLY way?
If yes, then Bible God purposely sent Abraham, Noah, Moses etc to decieve the masses and get people astray so that God could throw them in fire because those poor masses were unaware of Jesus?
All Jews are going to hell because Moses didn't teach and order them to seek salvation in Jesus because he is the ONLY way?
This confusion exists only because people continue to pretend that WE have something to do with our salvation. We do NOT! It doesn't matter who you are, we are ALL saved by Jesus and we have nothing to do with it. This applies to all those who lived and died before Jesus was born. The only requirement for faith is that we have faith that Jesus DID what He said He did. Everything else is human vanity and hubris.
This confusion exists only because people continue to pretend that WE have something to do with our salvation. We do NOT! It doesn't matter who you are, we are ALL saved by Jesus and we have nothing to do with it. This applies to all those who lived and died before Jesus was born. The only requirement for faith is that we have faith that Jesus DID what He said He did. Everything else is human vanity and hubris.
Read your comments again.
How will those be saved by Jesus who lived and died in the pre-Jesus era and they NEVER knew who Jesus was? How are these people supposed to meet "the only requirement" that you have mentioned?
And then if Jesus died for ALL then Hitler and Ariel Sharon must be in Heaven, isn't it?
Your Biblical ignorance is apparent. Without delving too deeply, as it would be meaningless, Abraham rejoiced in Jesus.
John 8
[53] Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
[54] Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
[55] Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
[56] Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
[57] Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[59] Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
What you need to show us is a passage from Torah that Moses ordered his followers that ignore my teaching and start believing in the son of God who is not here yet, because he is the only way to salvation.
We would then need the same references from Noah and Abraham.
As an atheist, this makes no logical sense. The bible is clear in verses to say that this god is very offended by human "sin." I know fundies say that humans have only been here for about 6-10 thousand years but we have human fossils showing humans being around for 100,000 plus years and up to 2.8 million years if we count human like ancestors. Why does Bible god wait around until thousands of years have passed of "sinning" to bring about this "savior of sins" character? Why not have this Jesus come on the scene when the sinning began if god was so offended. The whole omniscience thing makes this even more illogical.
Well...the Pedigree Abrahamics would tell you that when you get to Hell, ask Satan, he probably knows.
So...since you think it reasonable to question the literal veracity of metaphorical/allegorical writings, and the mindset & actions of a being that you claim you don't believe exists (a completely inane thing to do, that "makes no logical sense")...I offer you the same advice as well.
This is just more Christian bashing by the biased and hateful that can't stand the fact that Abrahamic Religious concepts dominate this world.
Read your comments again.
How will those be saved by Jesus who lived and died in the pre-Jesus era and they NEVER knew who Jesus was? How are these people supposed to meet "the only requirement" that you have mentioned?
And then if Jesus died for ALL then Hitler and Ariel Sharon must be in Heaven, isn't it?
I see you didn't read the link I posted in post #14.
The requirement for salvation has always been faith. The object of one's faith for salvation has always been God. The psalmist wrote, “Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (Psalm 2:12). Genesis 15:6 tells us that Abraham believed God and that was enough for God to credit it to him for righteousness (see also Romans 4:3-8). The Old Testament sacrificial system did not take away sin, as Hebrews 10:1-10 clearly teaches. It did, however, point to the day when the Son of God would shed His blood for the sinful human race.
I see you didn't read the link I posted in post #14.
The requirement for salvation has always been faith. The object of one's faith for salvation has always been God. The psalmist wrote, “Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (Psalm 2:12). Genesis 15:6 tells us that Abraham believed God and that was enough for God to credit it to him for righteousness (see also Romans 4:3-8). The Old Testament sacrificial system did not take away sin, as Hebrews 10:1-10 clearly teaches. It did, however, point to the day when the Son of God would shed His blood for the sinful human race.
So what we are saying here is that pre-Jesus era people needed to believe in God, and not necessarily Jesus, to be saved. (This also means that Jesus and God are two separate entities).
But once God send his son to shed his blood, it became mandatory upon all humans to seek salvation only thru Jesus. And there is no other way?
So what we are saying here is that pre-Jesus era people needed to believe in God, and not necessarily Jesus, to be saved. (This also means that Jesus and God are two separate entities).
But once God send his son to shed his blood, it became mandatory upon all humans to seek salvation only thru Jesus. And there is no other way?
Jesus was merely God in flesh. They are one entity.
Jesus was merely God in flesh. They are one entity.
Are Jesus' followers God in flesh, one entity, since Jesus prayed his followers all be one as he and his Father are one.
- John 17:11; John 17:21-23
Rather are they 'one' in: unity, belief, purpose, goal, belief, objective, agreement, teaching, etc. but Not all be God.
As an atheist, this makes no logical sense. Why does Bible god wait around until thousands of years have passed of "sinning" to bring about this "savior of sins" character? Why not have this Jesus come on the scene when the sinning began if god was so offended. The whole omniscience thing makes this even more illogical.
God acted right away according to Genesis 3:15 ( <-often termed the 1st prophecy )
Jesus would prove to be God's promised ' seed ' or offspring of Genesis 3:15
Backing back to Genesis 1:28 it shows that it is God's purpose for Earth to be inhabited by descendants of Adam and Eve.
So, if God would have Not allowed Adam and Eve to have children we simply would Not be here.
Earth is purposed to be filled ( populated) with descendants of Adam and Eve ( us).
So, Jesus, as Messiah and as promised ' seed ', could basically come along any time from Genesis 3:15 onward.
The first century was a good time for Jesus to appear on the scene, but he could have come later or earlier.
The end times of all badness on Earth would Not come before Earth is populated ( Not overpopulated or over full ) .
The thousands of years in passing has allowed for the maximum amount of people to be born and think who they would like as Sovereign over them. Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth will undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon the human race.
Also, Satan challenges ALL of us ( Job 2:4-5 ) to touch our ' flesh ' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under very adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we. The best is yet to come
That is why we are invited to pray the invitation for Jesus to come - Revelation 22:20; Revelation 22:2
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