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Yes...the ALL POWERFUL trait is a factor.
But only to the degree of how able and/or how many the Deity would be able to help.
The "Moral Standard" that is being used in the common rebuttal argument the Atheists pose in the "Answered Prayer Proof for God" debate is still, "Could have done more and/or for more, but didn't and let them remain suffering". They use this to argue that the Deity is either nonexistent or malevolent.
I carry it out to note that Atheists already have concluded nonexistence...so that just leaves their determination that if you could help more people, to a greater degree, and you don't...you are evil and malevolent.
That is the crux of their rebuttal argument for the "Answered Prayers As Evidence For God" claims. And, since they are putting that argument forth...they need to make sure to hold themselves to it also.
They claim the Deity is evil and malevolent for not helping more people that could have been helped. Now, how do THEY hold up to that? Do they help all they can...as many as they could? If they could, but don't...by THEIR standard, put forth in THEIR argument, they are necessarily evil and malevolent.
My last prayer ever was "your will be done." I don't see what the point is beyond that. To me that was a declaration that I was done trying to control (I still catch myself doing it here and there but at least I've identified it as maladaptive) As far as other people praying I think that is personal to them. However they deal is their choice. I just don't think someone getting something is proof of Divine intervention. Prayer has it's place as far as I'm concerned and that place is not the proof column.
Sure, I agree.
Quote:
I see the rest the same way you do. I think we where both given the same message. I wonder if "God" hasn't made different agreements with each of us and the whole idea isn't to change another viewpoint but to find a way to connect with that other person just as they.
Hmm, I don't know. Haven't given that any serious consideration, but I suppose it's possible. The bit about not changing another's viewpoint ... *sigh*. Maybe, but then what would we all talk about here? I feel like I connect with people sometimes BY our interactions of trying to change each other's viewpoints, but maybe that ain't healthy.
Hmm, I don't know. Haven't given that any serious consideration, but I suppose it's possible. The bit about not changing another's viewpoint ... *sigh*. Maybe, but then what would we all talk about here? I feel like I connect with people sometimes BY our interactions of trying to change each other's viewpoints, but maybe that ain't healthy.
To me you look like someone who asks questions trying to understand the other person. That seems to me about changing your viewpoint and not theirs.
Yes...the ALL POWERFUL trait is a factor.
But only to the degree of how able and/or how many the Deity would be able to help.
The "Moral Standard" that is being used in the common rebuttal argument the Atheists pose in the "Answered Prayer Proof for God" debate is still, "Could have done more and/or for more, but didn't and let them remain suffering". They use this to argue that the Deity is either nonexistent or malevolent.
I carry it out to note that Atheists already have concluded nonexistence...so that just leaves their determination that if you could help more people, to a greater degree, and you don't...you are evil and malevolent.
That is the crux of their rebuttal argument for the "Answered Prayers As Evidence For God" claims. And, since they are putting that argument forth...they need to make sure to hold themselves to it also.
They claim the Deity is evil and malevolent for not helping more people that could have been helped. Now, how do THEY hold up to that? Do they help all they can...as many as they could? If they could, but don't...by THEIR standard, put forth in THEIR argument, they are necessarily evil and malevolent.
To me you look like someone who asks questions trying to understand the other person. That seems to me about changing your viewpoint and not theirs.
That is true in many instances. But having escaped a fundamentalist form of Christianity, I do find that I want those still within that form to really take as objective a look as possible at what I believe are the harmful aspects of it, because doing that is part of what changed MY view.
Yes...the ALL POWERFUL trait is a factor.
But only to the degree of how able and/or how many the Deity would be able to help.
The "Moral Standard" that is being used in the common rebuttal argument the Atheists pose in the "Answered Prayer Proof for God" debate is still, "Could have done more and/or for more, but didn't and let them remain suffering". They use this to argue that the Deity is either nonexistent or malevolent.
I carry it out to note that Atheists already have concluded nonexistence...so that just leaves their determination that if you could help more people, to a greater degree, and you don't...you are evil and malevolent.
That is the crux of their rebuttal argument for the "Answered Prayers As Evidence For God" claims. And, since they are putting that argument forth...they need to make sure to hold themselves to it also.
They claim the Deity is evil and malevolent for not helping more people that could have been helped. Now, how do THEY hold up to that? Do they help all they can...as many as they could? If they could, but don't...by THEIR standard, put forth in THEIR argument, they are necessarily evil and malevolent.
It's not so much that I, as an atheist, consider the mythical abrahamic god evil(just sanctioning slavery, rape and genocide accomplishes this) for not healing those who suffer, it is that he does it while finding keys and jobs for sanctimonious Christians. I would respect him much more if he/she/it were just completely indifferent to all humans.
It's not so much that I, as an atheist, consider the mythical abrahamic god evil(just sanctioning slavery, rape and genocide accomplishes this) for not healing those who suffer, it is that he does it while finding keys and jobs for sanctimonious Christians. I would respect him much more if he/she/it were just completely indifferent to all humans.
Why would you assess the mindset and behavior of an Entity you do not believe even exists? That's inane, at the least, and as "out there" as any Religious claim.
Isn't the thoughts and behavior of a being that doesn't exist, moot?
I understand the Religious assessments of the Deities...they believe they exist.
But detailed critiques of that which is considered not to exist?! About as "gone" as it gets, IMO
Why would you assess the mindset and behavior of an Entity you do not believe even exists? That's inane, at the least, and as "out there" as any Religious claim.
Isn't the thoughts and behavior of a being that doesn't exist, moot?
I understand the Religious assessments of the Deities...they believe they exist.
But detailed critiques of that which is considered not to exist?! About as "gone" as it gets, IMO
Ridiculous, we respond to the bogus assertions in order to shed light on them. By your standard, atheist have no business discussing religion.
Ridiculous, we respond to the bogus assertions in order to shed light on them. By your standard, atheist have no business discussing religion.
Nah...it's real easy.
You just say, "It's all myth, and not real. It is metaphorical and allegorical. Literal assessments are not realistically valid", PERIOD!
Some go on for YEARS.. and have over 20 THOUSAND posts, just to this site. @ even a conservative 15 min per posting...that is 5000 HOURS. The equivalent of two and a half YEARS of a fulltime (40hr x 50 weeks) job!
They go on, and on, and on, and on critiquing of every aspect of line by line (even word by word) literal translations of theological writings, full-blown assessments of the conduct and mindset of beings they claim don't exist, all about the Religious organizations and people who are Religious, etc.
No...my standard isn't just about "discussing religion"...not even in the same league as that.
Wow...stunning, absolutely stunning. What a blessing. Thanks for posting. Is Catalan (spelling no doubt wrong) the dialect there? Peace
No.
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